Ok, I have the whoa board. I have the dog (3 year old V). I have time. Now what? I have tried to find some reading on how to use a whoa board, but have been pretty unsuccessful.
We have been using the whoa command in other situations, like when we want her to keep from running out the door. When she has been on some birds I have steadied her and said "whoa" and loved on her, etc.
Just looking for some advice to get me started in the right direction. Thanks!
How to use a Whoa Board
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Buckeye_V
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Ryan
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AHGSP
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birdshot wrote:it's used on Pointers and is applied between the eyes.
ROTFLMAO In tears I might add!
Bruce Shaffer
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain
Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain
Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)
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Vizsla Vince
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Wagonmaster
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Are you guys asking about the beam or the board? The board is a 2' x 4' piece of plywood, with 2 x 4's nailed on edge underneath to make a frame, so the board sits off the ground a few inches. indoor/outdoor carpet glued to the top for traction. it is used to teach whoa.
the beam is a 4 x 4 beam built on a frame about 4' off the ground, comfortable height for the handler, with a cable running above it. dog is lifted on the board and attached to the cable with a short rope or lead. it is used to style the dog up on whoa, and reinforce the command.
the beam is a 4 x 4 beam built on a frame about 4' off the ground, comfortable height for the handler, with a cable running above it. dog is lifted on the board and attached to the cable with a short rope or lead. it is used to style the dog up on whoa, and reinforce the command.
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Buckeye_V
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Wagonmaster
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that is more like a whoa table.
i make my boards out of a 4 x 8 sheet of 3/8 or 1/2" plywood. one sheet makes three boards, so they are actually 2'8" x 4' I am pretty sure. I make a frame underneath, of 2 x 4" boards on edge. I put indoor/outdoor carpet on top for traction and to prevent slivers. so the board is slightly elevated off the ground by the thickness of the 2 x 4's on edge plus the plywood.
TT has a video out about the use of the boards, also called a "place board." What you are trying to do is teach the dog to stay on the board when it is whoa'd - to stay in place. Their way is to set the collar on the lowest setting that gets any kind of reaction from the dog. Then when the dog steps off the board, press the button on the transmitter and hold it down until the dog is back on the board. This is oversimplifying, they have several other steps. But I have never found this "continuous stimulation" technique to be very useful, even at low levels, and some dogs react badly (cowering), so I don't use the collar at all.
Here is how I do it:
First, the purpose of this is to teach a dog whoa from scratch, dog does not know the command.
The first step is to show the dog that whoa means stand on the board, don't move off it. For this, the dog's options need to be limited, so you need to create temporary walls around the back and the two long sides of the board, so the dog cannot back off or step of to the side. You also need to be able to restrain the dog from stepping off to the front, towards you.
To create the temporary walls, I used one of those many-sided pup pens, and arranged it as walls on the back and two sides of the board. You can use just about anything. To keep the dog from stepping off to the front, I put the whole contraption in front of one of the posts for my kennel, tied a small pulley to the post, and ran a 30' rope through the pulley.
Now you can place the dog on the board, snap the rope to its collar, command whoa, and step back the length of the rope. If the dog tries to follow, restrain it with the rope. If the dog tries to sit, go quickly to the dog, pick it up by the belly, and make it stand.
It only takes a few days of this, two or three short sessions of no more than 15 minutes per session, and the dog will understand that whoa means stand on the board.
You can progress to the next step by taking the "walls" away but keeping the rope. If the dog steps off to the side, go to it, put it back on the board, and command whoa.
I usually get through to this stage in about a week of short sessions. The dog understands that whoa means stand on the board and don't move or get off. The reason for the board, instead of just doing it on the ground, is that the board establishes a clear boundary.
Next is to do some drills to get the dog to walk up on the board, stop, and stay there. For this, I heel the dog around in the normal way. Then heel it up on the board. I stop, and when I do, I command whoa. Let the dog stand on the board for awhile, then command heel and heel it off.
Next, heel the dog up on the board, stop, whoa the dog, and step out in front of the dog. If the dog tries to move with you, which it usually will the first couple of times, command whoa, and restrain the dog from moving, by reaching back over its head and pulling backwards on the lead while you walk in front.
When the dog understands it is to stand still even if you move, the next step is to walk around the dog and make it stay on the board.
Then the next step is to get the dog to resist leaving the board. Walk in front, command whoa, and pull gently on the lead. It is sometimes helpful to put your hand out in a "stop" gesture while you command whoa. Most dogs, with a little work on this exercise, will actually rise a little and resist back quite strongly. Work up to being able to pull at the dog from the sides and back.
Then work up to longer leads. I use ropes as long as 20 or 30 feet.
Finally, use no ropes or leads at all. This is the point where, if you want to use an ecollar to enforce, that would work.
The last transition to make in the yard, is to move to doing all these exercises with no board at all. Also, you will want to try whoaing the dog, moving away 30-50 feet, commanding it to come, and then when it is part way to you, commanding it to whoa and making it stop. You are now training the dog to stop on command.
The whole thing, step by step, is about three or four weeks of work, short sessions every day. At the end of it, the dog knows what the whoa command means. You are then ready to extend the use of the command into the birdfield. Don't expect the dog to be perfect out there though. It takes quite awhile, at least several months, to get a dog reasonably broke on birds.
But the starting point is that whoa command. This is one way to teach it.
Incidentally, since I am a step by step kind of guy, I take about a week of work to make the transition from the board to pure birdfield work. First, I do the whoa board exercises we have covered so far, but I do them out in a field, in my case, the field where we actually do planted bird work. This reinforces that the dog must whoa even out in the field.
Then with one dog, I was waiting on some birds to arrive, so I came up with the idea of simulating a bird launch. I would put a mechanical launcher down in front of the whoa board, put some leaves in it, bring the dog up on the board, whoa it, and trigger the launcher. The first couple of times, the dog went on the sound of the launcher. So I just would heel it around, put it on the board, and repeat.
Next, I would put a bird in the launcher and plant it 6 or 8 feet in front of the board. Do the exercise again and launch the bird. If the dog leaves the board, heel it back on or pick it up and put it back on the board and command whoa. It only takes a week or 10 days of these exercises done on the board, and the dog will be standing for the flush. Then, remove the board. You will find that there is a nice rectangle where the grass is stunted where the board used to be. Do your exercises in this rectangle for a few days. Same deal, if the dog moves, heel it or place it back in the rectangle.
Finally, get away from the rectangle and the board entirely. The dog understands whoa at this point, and you can do normal birdfield type training.
I find it helps, for the first year of bird training, to go back and do some yardwork exercises, especially on whoa. You do not need the board anymore, but it helps to go back and reinforce. The board is always there, though, in case the dog seriously unravels, and you need to back up a few steps in your training.
i make my boards out of a 4 x 8 sheet of 3/8 or 1/2" plywood. one sheet makes three boards, so they are actually 2'8" x 4' I am pretty sure. I make a frame underneath, of 2 x 4" boards on edge. I put indoor/outdoor carpet on top for traction and to prevent slivers. so the board is slightly elevated off the ground by the thickness of the 2 x 4's on edge plus the plywood.
TT has a video out about the use of the boards, also called a "place board." What you are trying to do is teach the dog to stay on the board when it is whoa'd - to stay in place. Their way is to set the collar on the lowest setting that gets any kind of reaction from the dog. Then when the dog steps off the board, press the button on the transmitter and hold it down until the dog is back on the board. This is oversimplifying, they have several other steps. But I have never found this "continuous stimulation" technique to be very useful, even at low levels, and some dogs react badly (cowering), so I don't use the collar at all.
Here is how I do it:
First, the purpose of this is to teach a dog whoa from scratch, dog does not know the command.
The first step is to show the dog that whoa means stand on the board, don't move off it. For this, the dog's options need to be limited, so you need to create temporary walls around the back and the two long sides of the board, so the dog cannot back off or step of to the side. You also need to be able to restrain the dog from stepping off to the front, towards you.
To create the temporary walls, I used one of those many-sided pup pens, and arranged it as walls on the back and two sides of the board. You can use just about anything. To keep the dog from stepping off to the front, I put the whole contraption in front of one of the posts for my kennel, tied a small pulley to the post, and ran a 30' rope through the pulley.
Now you can place the dog on the board, snap the rope to its collar, command whoa, and step back the length of the rope. If the dog tries to follow, restrain it with the rope. If the dog tries to sit, go quickly to the dog, pick it up by the belly, and make it stand.
It only takes a few days of this, two or three short sessions of no more than 15 minutes per session, and the dog will understand that whoa means stand on the board.
You can progress to the next step by taking the "walls" away but keeping the rope. If the dog steps off to the side, go to it, put it back on the board, and command whoa.
I usually get through to this stage in about a week of short sessions. The dog understands that whoa means stand on the board and don't move or get off. The reason for the board, instead of just doing it on the ground, is that the board establishes a clear boundary.
Next is to do some drills to get the dog to walk up on the board, stop, and stay there. For this, I heel the dog around in the normal way. Then heel it up on the board. I stop, and when I do, I command whoa. Let the dog stand on the board for awhile, then command heel and heel it off.
Next, heel the dog up on the board, stop, whoa the dog, and step out in front of the dog. If the dog tries to move with you, which it usually will the first couple of times, command whoa, and restrain the dog from moving, by reaching back over its head and pulling backwards on the lead while you walk in front.
When the dog understands it is to stand still even if you move, the next step is to walk around the dog and make it stay on the board.
Then the next step is to get the dog to resist leaving the board. Walk in front, command whoa, and pull gently on the lead. It is sometimes helpful to put your hand out in a "stop" gesture while you command whoa. Most dogs, with a little work on this exercise, will actually rise a little and resist back quite strongly. Work up to being able to pull at the dog from the sides and back.
Then work up to longer leads. I use ropes as long as 20 or 30 feet.
Finally, use no ropes or leads at all. This is the point where, if you want to use an ecollar to enforce, that would work.
The last transition to make in the yard, is to move to doing all these exercises with no board at all. Also, you will want to try whoaing the dog, moving away 30-50 feet, commanding it to come, and then when it is part way to you, commanding it to whoa and making it stop. You are now training the dog to stop on command.
The whole thing, step by step, is about three or four weeks of work, short sessions every day. At the end of it, the dog knows what the whoa command means. You are then ready to extend the use of the command into the birdfield. Don't expect the dog to be perfect out there though. It takes quite awhile, at least several months, to get a dog reasonably broke on birds.
But the starting point is that whoa command. This is one way to teach it.
Incidentally, since I am a step by step kind of guy, I take about a week of work to make the transition from the board to pure birdfield work. First, I do the whoa board exercises we have covered so far, but I do them out in a field, in my case, the field where we actually do planted bird work. This reinforces that the dog must whoa even out in the field.
Then with one dog, I was waiting on some birds to arrive, so I came up with the idea of simulating a bird launch. I would put a mechanical launcher down in front of the whoa board, put some leaves in it, bring the dog up on the board, whoa it, and trigger the launcher. The first couple of times, the dog went on the sound of the launcher. So I just would heel it around, put it on the board, and repeat.
Next, I would put a bird in the launcher and plant it 6 or 8 feet in front of the board. Do the exercise again and launch the bird. If the dog leaves the board, heel it back on or pick it up and put it back on the board and command whoa. It only takes a week or 10 days of these exercises done on the board, and the dog will be standing for the flush. Then, remove the board. You will find that there is a nice rectangle where the grass is stunted where the board used to be. Do your exercises in this rectangle for a few days. Same deal, if the dog moves, heel it or place it back in the rectangle.
Finally, get away from the rectangle and the board entirely. The dog understands whoa at this point, and you can do normal birdfield type training.
I find it helps, for the first year of bird training, to go back and do some yardwork exercises, especially on whoa. You do not need the board anymore, but it helps to go back and reinforce. The board is always there, though, in case the dog seriously unravels, and you need to back up a few steps in your training.
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Wagonmaster
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PS if you want to do some advanced training on whoa and styling up, there is a really good explanation of the beam at http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/viewtopic.php?t=28730
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Wagonmaster
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tailcrackin
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And when you go to the field, put yourself a back strap on the board so you will be able to carry it to every bird that you put out in the field, because the dog will now get to hunt and point, and you get to do it aaaalllllllll over again. :roll: Or better yet, cut ya 3-4 so you can have them out in front of the bird, before the dog comes to the bird and give us an honest report. And I bet ya he will remember that board and automatically know that he is supposed to whoa 
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Wagonmaster
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SwitchGrassWPG
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You only start out with 9s??? That's where I made my first mistake.
You can do similar work with a post and a check cord. Take a look at this thread.
http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=
You can do similar work with a post and a check cord. Take a look at this thread.
http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=
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snips
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Well WM, thats about how I do it, but I just put a nylon collar around the rear to set him back, take away the board and walls, and he knows Whoa in about a week...
Last edited by snips on Fri May 12, 2006 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
brenda
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Wagonmaster
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like anything else with a dog, you can go at it several ways. that thread you cite was mostly about stopping a dog from crowding. the use of a "whoa board" comes long before that. "whoa post" works too, that is Delmar Smith's method ("Best Way to Train a Gun Dog"). the one drawback to it is that a dog can move around laterally, or can circle backwards away from you. he is not restrained from doing that. so with dogs that pay close attention to you, and are inclined to come one way - towards you - post works good.
there are other methods also. the whoa barrel method. or just having a training partner that restrains the dog on a check cord when you give whoa, and replaces the dog when it moves. some pros used to use slingshots and marbles instead of 9's. or you can walk the dog up a table like the navdha table, and whoa it on the table. had one friend years ago who kept dogs in kennels, and had dog boxes (dog houses) that the dogs could go in to get out of the weather, and to sleep. the top of the boxes were hinged so he could open them. every night when he fed the dogs, he would take them out of the box, set them on the lid, and make them whoa while he stroked them and when he filled their food dish.
lots of ways. if you use a table, barrel, board, box top, etc., you still have to transition the dog to working on the ground, and working in the field.
PS "I" personally have never used 9's. Saw it done unfortunately. Dumb way to train, I thought. Many of those dogs developed "spear grass" and never made it home, or if they did, died in the kennel. Thank heaven for ecollars.
there are other methods also. the whoa barrel method. or just having a training partner that restrains the dog on a check cord when you give whoa, and replaces the dog when it moves. some pros used to use slingshots and marbles instead of 9's. or you can walk the dog up a table like the navdha table, and whoa it on the table. had one friend years ago who kept dogs in kennels, and had dog boxes (dog houses) that the dogs could go in to get out of the weather, and to sleep. the top of the boxes were hinged so he could open them. every night when he fed the dogs, he would take them out of the box, set them on the lid, and make them whoa while he stroked them and when he filled their food dish.
lots of ways. if you use a table, barrel, board, box top, etc., you still have to transition the dog to working on the ground, and working in the field.
PS "I" personally have never used 9's. Saw it done unfortunately. Dumb way to train, I thought. Many of those dogs developed "spear grass" and never made it home, or if they did, died in the kennel. Thank heaven for ecollars.