Training Methods

brjones8 · Post by **brjones8** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:10 am

Hi. I know this is probably a hotly contested debate on this site, but I just got a book by Richard Wolters, "Game Dog". It seems like a very well written book directed towards those of us who will use our dogs for hunting and not field trials, etc. I was just wondering about other's opinions on his training methods. Do they stack up in the real world? Is there another methodology that I should be trying on my new pups?

Thanks in advance.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:22 pm

I bought that video and didnt like his methods.

Wing and Shot by Robert G. Wehle, Delmar Smith also has good methods geared towards the hunter.

Quailhunter · Post by **Quailhunter** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:32 pm

There are plenty of books out there written by folks who trained more than one dog and use proven techniques. I would suggest that you look elsewhere.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:42 pm

i have not read Game Dog. Wolters first book, Gun Dog, was so poor I passed on Game Dog. Try Bill Tarrant/Delmar Smith, Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog.

cumberland · Post by **cumberland** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:45 pm

Wolters method is like all others, will work for some people and some dogs, but won't work for them all. Like everyone else, I suggest you look into some of the other training methods and choose the one, or the pieces of each that work best for you and your dog.

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:02 pm

Wagonmaster wrote:Try Bill Tarrant/Delmar Smith, Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog.

I'll second that. I read that book before and after getting my first pup, and my wife read it too. She doesn't really take part in his field training, but she understands what I do with him in the field because of it - and then makes sure she doesn't do anything to let him backslide (i.e. use a field command and let him get away with breaking it).

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:15 pm

I third the delmar smith book I have it here and am reading it for the second time.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:55 pm

I have the book and it is a good guideline to follow but some improvizing is needed.

I am assuming that you have a retriever if you have the book Game Dog. If that is the case than you should be able to follow it and get good results.

If you have a pointing dog than NO this book will not tell you what you need to train a pointing dog. Walters was a retriever trainer.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:44 pm

Rick Smith has a puppy dvd out Great info in it about things to do with your puppy

The seminars everyone I know that has been to one felt they have gotton well more then their moneis worth in knowledge and help in training and direction with their dogs and quite a few had been to other seminars which they said they got way more from Rick then from the other people they had gone to see''

Delmar and Rick Smith methods I have seen more people being happier and successful with their techniques then others combined

Rick and Ronnie have worked and through modern technology have improved on an already very successful Method which Delmar has done for years...

HUTCH · Post by **HUTCH** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:40 pm

I like the Dave Walker book. it is very easy to understand and I wasnt scared to try the technigue like I was with some other methods and how they teach whoa.

Quailhunter · Post by **Quailhunter** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:33 pm

I challenge anyone who suggests his method of teaching whoa to find one successful professional trainer who uses that method. Running at a dog while screaming with your hands in the air doesn't just make you look like an idiot.........some would argue that it actually makes you one.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:40 am

Dave Walker would be my suggestion.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:44 am

Casper wrote:I have the book and it is a good guideline to follow but some improvizing is needed.

I am assuming that you have a retriever if you have the book Game Dog. If that is the case than you should be able to follow it and get good results.

If you have a pointing dog than NO this book will not tell you what you need to train a pointing dog. Walters was a retriever trainer.

I second this. I really liked Water dog and Game Dog, for training my lab. Many pointing dog people wil jump to tell you that Walters methods stink. Well, their opinions are well founded in that Gun Dog is not a very good book or method in my opinion, but his methods for training retrievers are sound, though you may want to round out your knowledge with Training Retrievers for Marshes and Meadows (gee - you'd think I liked this book or someting, I reccomend it so much!) by James Spencer.
As Casper said, if you have a pointer, I'd go a different route. I am going to defy the crowd here though, and say that I really didn't find the Bill Tarrant/Delmar Smith book that helpful. I enjoyed the read and found it a useful supplement, but it left me with alot of questions, and is rather harsh for my taste. I am a small person and if tried to let my 70 lb. GSP male "hit the end of the checkcord" I would probably just go with him

. Actually if I let my 50 lb gsp hit the end of the cord I'd probably have trouble too. If there are birds there it's amazing the power they can muster!!

My advice is pretty much the same as always, I guess. Read alot of methods, talk to trainers, know your dog, and pick the best mix you can, for you and your dog. I haven't yet trained one dog by strictly one method. Always use a bit of a mixture and improvise through problem areas, but then I haven't trained nearly as many dogs as some of these folks.
Haven't read the Dave walker book but I need to...
------
Laurie

EWSIV · Post by **EWSIV** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:35 pm

Waterdog is also a poor book for training retrievers, as I assume Game Dog is.

If you want a retriever training book I would get The 10-Minute Retriever by John and Amy Dahl first then graduate to Evan Graham's Smartwork for Retrievers.

Will Schwarzlose

Addict · Post by **Addict** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:50 pm

I will second Evan Grahams work. Covers everything you need to know.

Addict

HUTCH · Post by **HUTCH** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:07 pm

Quailhunter wrote:I challenge anyone who suggests his method of teaching whoa to find one successful professional trainer who uses that method. Running at a dog while screaming with your hands in the air doesn't just make you look like an idiot.........some would argue that it actually makes you one.

I was wondering who you were talking about?

also could someone tell me the difference if their is one between the old Delmar Smith book and his sons training? thanks.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:51 pm

Most of the difference comes from the modern technology and a continuation of a family learning the way a dog can learnand of the e collars of today alot of the methods are very much based the same...Rick has more then most could ever dream of and that is being raised with a proven dog handler and to be able to have the freedom to build on that

If you ever have a chance take your dog and yourself to one of the foundation seminars...what you will learn in 2 days will be over whelming...
and the proof is he does with your dog not a dog he brings like alot of seminars hosted out there

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:55 pm

I think somedays people just get up on the wrong side of the bed and then let off steam on the these threads. Can't think of any other excuse for some of the things that are posted. Everyone needs to cool their jets a little sometimes when something is posted they don't agree with. There are many different methods to get most every job done and there is nothing saying ours is the best way. Listen to toher people and you may learn something or if you still think your way is better just go ahead and do it your way without running other methods down.

Ezzy

billy · Post by **billy** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:55 pm

Great suggestions & opinions based on experience listed above! Have you considered joining a training club or NAVHDA chapter! The experience the club members have will aid you in deciding what training method to study & apply in the field with your gun dog.

Best Regards,

Billy

HUTCH · Post by **HUTCH** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:21 pm

thanks for the explanation Kinebirddog. I really like to read all the books I can on training, even if I dont plan on using it. I think something can be learned from all methods. I really find it interesting to learn why trainers do what they do. I like to hear about the dog pychology behind all the methods. I wish I was talented enough to train a different dog with a different method then I would really know witch one works the best for me. thanks.

brjones8 · Post by **brjones8** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:09 pm

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I should have clarified some of the things I'm looking for in a training maual. First would be as much as possible step by step. I do have a retriever, and am strictly hunting upland birds in the mountain of Virginia and West Virginia. Thanks again.