Are you an NRA member?

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by cjhills » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:22 am

Neil wrote:A jury just awarded $6 million to police officers that were shot with am illegally obtained firearm, citing the store should have known it was a straw man purchase. Both officers are back to work, but suffered serious injuries. Although a large store, it is believed this will force them out of business.

Can you imagine the size of the award if all the victims of the mass shootings were allowed to sue the manufacturers of the guns that were used? I would think the awards would be in the billions. No maker, even if they raised their prices by a factor of 10 could survive.

Colt is already in bankruptcy, gun manufacturing is just not that profitable.

It would not just be a few more dollars for a box of shells, but only the very rich and the government would be able to buy guns and ammo.
Some of us would like to see a bit more information on this award. We don't get much to base an opinion on from " a jury just awarded". Where, When and Why. Could it be the store was guilty..................Cj

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Spy Car » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:37 am

Badger Guns—the well known "go to" store for criminals seeking guns in Wisconsin—knowingly aided an illegal "straw man" purchase of a hand gun that the illegal recipient of the gun later used to shoot two Milwaukee police officers in the face. There is surveillance footage of the store clerk doctoring forms to cover the purchase. There was no doubt this was a "straw man" purchase, and was part of a pattern of this gun shop being the source of street guns for criminals.

It is support for these sorts of antics that put responsible people (including sportmen, hunters, and gun owners) off the extremist positions of the NRA.

Good grief.

Bill

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by cjhills » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:55 am

Thanks Bill. Neil has a tendency to omit some of the pertinent facts where the NRA and gun control are concerned.
Now we know the rest of the story..................Cj

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Neil » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:58 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/us/gu ... .html?_r=0

I thought those interested could do their own Google.

But you are missing my point, I suspect they are guilty, and I don't care if they are put out of business. They were sued under existing law, yet the Dems (all but Webb) want to expand the law to include the manufacturers. How can a manufacture be liable for the illegal use of their product? Are car manufacturers liable for drunk drivers or for a car being used for a robbery get away?

If a gun store is awarded $6 mill, what might Bushmaster be hit with?

NRA is trying to prevent these backdoor gun control schemes. Others are to include making a gun owner liable if his gun is stolen and then used in a crime, smart guns, bullet and powder identifiers, National registry, etc.

Universal background checks seem reasonable (there is no gun show loophole), but as proposed would include gifts to family members, including inheritance, and close friends. And no provision if there is no timely response, so if the authorities do nothing there is no sale.

We need to support the NRA.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Neil » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:06 am

cjhills wrote:Thanks Bill. Neil has a tendency to omit some of the pertinent facts where the NRA and gun control are concerned.
Now we know the rest of the story..................Cj
That is insulting and untrue. Learn to read what I write and not judge me by what you think I wrote.

Please re-read it and my follow up.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by ckirsch » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:10 am

cjhills wrote:Thanks Bill. Neil has a tendency to omit some of the pertinent facts where the NRA and gun control are concerned.
Now we know the rest of the story..................Cj
I guess I haven't noticed Neil missing any facts, but it's comforting to know that we can count on a couple of online liberals for straight talk on gun control.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Spy Car » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:22 am

I re-read what you said Neil, including this:

A jury just awarded $6 million to police officers that were shot with am illegally obtained firearm, citing the store should have known it was a straw man purchase. Both officers are back to work, but suffered serious injuries. Although a large store, it is believed this will force them out of business.

The jury didn't award the judgement because the gun store "should have known" this was a straw man purchase. They knew. The "buyer" filled out the forms indicating he was purchasing the gun for the straw buyer, and the store clerks walked him through making "corrections" on the form to cover what was a clearly illegal purchase.

The police officers, unlike what you suggest, are not fine. Officer Graham Kunisch was shot in the face, lost an eye and part of the frontal lobe of his brain. His injuries forced him to retire. Officer Bryan Norberg had a bullet shatter eight of his teeth, blew through his cheek and became lodged in his shoulder. He remains on the force but says his wounds have made his work difficult. They are not fine.

You should care if they go out of business, as Badger Guns has been one of the major suppliers of guns to street criminals in the United States.

Bill

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:49 am

Spy Car wrote:I re-read what you said Neil, including this:

A jury just awarded $6 million to police officers that were shot with am illegally obtained firearm, citing the store should have known it was a straw man purchase. Both officers are back to work, but suffered serious injuries. Although a large store, it is believed this will force them out of business.

The jury didn't award the judgement because the gun store "should have known" this was a straw man purchase. They knew. The "buyer" filled out the forms indicating he was purchasing the gun for the straw buyer, and the store clerks walked him through making "corrections" on the form to cover what was a clearly illegal purchase.

The police officers, unlike what you suggest, are not fine. Officer Graham Kunisch was shot in the face, lost an eye and part of the frontal lobe of his brain. His injuries forced him to retire. Officer Bryan Norberg had a bullet shatter eight of his teeth, blew through his cheek and became lodged in his shoulder. He remains on the force but says his wounds have made his work difficult. They are not fine.

You should care if they go out of business, as Badger Guns has been one of the major suppliers of guns to street criminals in the United States.

Bill
As pointed out above, it is comforting to know we have a resident expert that always knows everything. Neil's post was not misleading if read and it isn't up to a third party as to what someone should care. Always seems to come back to the fact that every post you make is always written as the final word instead of just your opinion. We don't need that when you don't know anymore than the rest of us. And I am not disagreeing with what you said as I like you, do not have the facts but rather just what we have read. And as has become very evident lately, you can't believe half of what you read when the reporters have an agenda instead of reporting facts.
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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Spy Car » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:54 am

According to the Wall Street Journal (hardly the mouthpiece of online liberals) Badger Guns (then Badger Outdoors) in 2005 sold 537 guns that were used in crimes and recovered by police, making it the No. 1 seller of guns used in crimes nationally.

BTW, the public release of the lists of leading gun dealers who supply the most gums to criminals has been blocked by Congress since 2003. Thanks NRA!

Badger Guns was a business built on supplying criminals with guns. Milwaukee Police Chief Edward A. Flynn has called the Badger businesses "a cancerous lesion." The store was so criminal that the ATF began moves to strip the store of its license against political pressure (thanks NRA!). Before the store lost its license the owner transferred ownership to his son, modified the name from Badger Outdoors to Badger Guns, and began with a Federal "clean-slate." but the criminal behavior continued unabated.

Responsible people should cheer the verdict. This store should close forever. shame it took so long!

Bill

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240 ... 2799558876
Last edited by Spy Car on Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Spy Car » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:59 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Spy Car wrote:I re-read what you said Neil, including this:

A jury just awarded $6 million to police officers that were shot with am illegally obtained firearm, citing the store should have known it was a straw man purchase. Both officers are back to work, but suffered serious injuries. Although a large store, it is believed this will force them out of business.

The jury didn't award the judgement because the gun store "should have known" this was a straw man purchase. They knew. The "buyer" filled out the forms indicating he was purchasing the gun for the straw buyer, and the store clerks walked him through making "corrections" on the form to cover what was a clearly illegal purchase.

The police officers, unlike what you suggest, are not fine. Officer Graham Kunisch was shot in the face, lost an eye and part of the frontal lobe of his brain. His injuries forced him to retire. Officer Bryan Norberg had a bullet shatter eight of his teeth, blew through his cheek and became lodged in his shoulder. He remains on the force but says his wounds have made his work difficult. They are not fine.

You should care if they go out of business, as Badger Guns has been one of the major suppliers of guns to street criminals in the United States.

Bill
As pointed out above, it is comforting to know we have a resident expert that always knows everything. Neil's post was not misleading if read and it isn't up to a third party as to what someone should care. Always seems to come back to the fact that every post you make is always written as the final word instead of just your opinion. We don't need that when you don't know anymore than the rest of us. And I am not disagreeing with what you said as I like you, do not have the facts but rather just what we have read. And as has become very evident lately, you can't believe half of what you read when the reporters have an agenda instead of reporting facts.
Well Ezzy, it ain't so that both officers are back at work. One is (and is in constant pain) the other had part of his brain blown out and lost an eye.

The gun store is notorious. The alteration of the sales forms was caught on tape. Those are the facts, like 'em or not.

Bill

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Neil » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:16 am

Look, I am willing to stipulate that this gun store should be closed, our current laws worked!

My point was/is that gun manufacturers must be shielded from liability.

Even though misconstrued, I will not defend my statements about the store, it is a distraction.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by nikegundog » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:47 am

Neil wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/us/gu ... .html?_r=0

I thought those interested could do their own Google.

But you are missing my point, I suspect they are guilty, and I don't care if they are put out of business. They were sued under existing law, yet the Dems (all but Webb) want to expand the law to include the manufacturers. How can a manufacture be liable for the illegal use of their product? Are car manufacturers liable for drunk drivers or for a car being used for a robbery get away?

If a gun store is awarded $6 mill, what might Bushmaster be hit with?

NRA is trying to prevent these backdoor gun control schemes. Others are to include making a gun owner liable if his gun is stolen and then used in a crime, smart guns, bullet and powder identifiers, National registry, etc.

Universal background checks seem reasonable (there is no gun show loophole), but as proposed would include gifts to family members, including inheritance, and close friends. And no provision if there is no timely response, so if the authorities do nothing there is no sale.

We need to support the NRA.
You read the NYTimes? :roll:

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Neil » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:22 pm

Touche, Google does.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by cjhills » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:43 pm

Neil wrote:Touche, Google does.
I just want to see if I understand this. You do not read the New York Times. But you google Articles on Police shooting Trials or whatever you would have to use to come up with the article, then you post your version of the article with no link to the article. You do not write anything about the possibility that the jury was right.You tell me your post is not misleading. Okay, I get your point....................Cj

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Timewise65 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:56 pm

Rod W wrote:
displaced_texan wrote:I'm not a member because I see them as another money hungry, corrupt cog in the political machine.

In the big picture I don't think they really do much good.

Them---They, Just happens to be ME--US AND MILLIONS LIKE, ME, US, That are forced to spend millions of hard earned dollars, because of the ignorance of you and others that are spoon fed by our socialist media and society. The NRA is running a special, $300 for a life time membership, why don't you contact them, find out how they do, help you, and join us, thereby helping to stop that corrupt cog in the political machine? Do you own a gun? Don't worry, though, we, I, us, fellow NRA members, WILL CONTINUE, to give our hard earned dollars, to DEFEND, YOUR, MY, OUR and even THEIR gun rights!!I have heard, If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!! Thank You very much, ROD

We are life members as are our adult sons and my adult daughter! We do not take our freedom lightly and recognize that having an armed population is one of the best ways to protect ourselves from Big Government Corruption. The NRA is an organization that let's the general population stand up with financial support... against Big Labor, NEA, NAACP, and other very large Progressive Liberal Organizations that spend millions of dollars on our politicians to force politicians into office whose goal is to further Socialize our country.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Neil » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:16 pm

cjhills wrote:
Neil wrote:Touche, Google does.
I just want to see if I understand this. You do not read the New York Times. But you google Articles on Police shooting Trials or whatever you would have to use to come up with the article, then you post your version of the article with no link to the article. You do not write anything about the possibility that the jury was right.You tell me your post is not misleading. Okay, I get your point....................Cj
Once again a diversion. My second post did have a link, that is why you asked if I read the NYT. And unless overturned on appeal, all juries are right.

Let me say again, my point had little to do with the gun store other than the amount of the award, but was all about the Dem candidates chhanging the law to sue gun manufacturers for the illegal use of their products I speculate the awards for Collinbine would be in the billions.

The NRA is against that. Are you in favor?

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by cjhills » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:56 pm

Thing is, I agree with you that gun manufactures should not be held liable for guns used in crimes. I am not real sure that every democrat disagrees with you. More NRA propaganda. I kinda like to make my own decisions and not have some radicals telling me what is right or wrong. So far nobody has came up with any reasonable solution to gun problems. Sooner or later when enough people get sick of having their children murdered things will change and it will not be for the good of the gun owners.
If you blindly agree with everything the NRA and your right wing buddies and politicians preach you are in for a very rude awakening. When the NRA and the conservative politicians get done picking our pockets we will be lucky to have enough money to buy a box of shot gun shells.................Cj

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Neil » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:20 am

Did you watch the Dem debate? 4 of them publically stated that it was vital that GUN MANUFACTURES be held liable for the carnage their weapons cause, that is their idea of commonsense gun laws. I certainly don't agree with everything the NRA does, but driving the gun makers out of business will not save one child. When asked who their defining enemies were, two said the NRA. The Left also believes, since I am required to have liability insurance on my car, I should have it on my guns. That will cost more than a box of shells.

The only thing that will make a significant difference in gun deaths is to abolish gun manufacturing and start confiscating all guns. I could get behind that; if they, you, and your leftist friends will certify to being held personally liable, if my family or I are a victim of crime.

Anything short of the total elimination of all weapons; including knives, hammers, axes, and rolling pins, will only make the Left feel good. Crazies will still kill.

By the way, if those that attack gun free zones, that is schools, movie theaters, churches, and malls; knew what they were doing; one of your shotguns would work well. So before you advocate my giving up my rights, you surrender your shotguns and the pols give up armed bodyguards.

So to summarise, indemnify me against loss of life and property, and contribute your shotguns, I will then support reasonable gun laws, I will just be the last in line.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by cjhills » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:04 am

Neil wrote:Did you watch the Dem debate? 4 of them publically stated that it was vital that GUN MANUFACTURES be held liable for the carnage their weapons cause, that is their idea of commonsense gun laws. I certainly don't agree with everything the NRA does, but driving the gun makers out of business will not save one child. When asked who their defining enemies were, two said the NRA. The Left also believes, since I am required to have liability insurance on my car, I should have it on my guns. That will cost more than a box of shells.

The only thing that will make a significant difference in gun deaths is to abolish gun manufacturing and start confiscating all guns. I could get behind that; if they, you, and your leftist friends will certify to being held personally liable, if my family or I are a victim of crime.

Anything short of the total elimination of all weapons; including knives, hammers, axes, and rolling pins, will only make the Left feel good. Crazies will still kill.

By the way, if those that attack gun free zones, that is schools, movie theaters, churches, and malls; knew what they were doing; one of your shotguns would work well. So before you advocate my giving up my rights, you surrender your shotguns and the pols give up armed bodyguards.

So to summarise, indemnify me against loss of life and property, and contribute your shotguns, I will then support reasonable gun laws, I will just be the last in line.
I do not believe I ever advocated you giving up your rights or mentioned anything about having shotguns or any other guns. I simply do not believe in the NRA's sensationalism and scare tactics and believe the main goal of the NRA is to line a few fat cat right wingers pockets.
No, I am not a member and never will be a member while the current regime is in control.........Cj

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:21 am

And the current regime will be in control as long as we need their expertise in dealing with a government that includes a party that has advertised their goal of doing away with guns in our society. I sometimes get upset with their constant plea for more money but I have to admit that we have done a good job of supporting our organization. I thank God everyday that we have been able to hold our own against a society that with each generation gets further away from what is required to remain a free society and what our ancestors have done to pass it down to us. It just seems so foreign to me to see people that are unable to understand the past and so disconnected to not realize what is happening today. Somewhere we forgot to educate our children and they have the idea that you have to agree with everything that someone does or they can't support them even though they agree with 95% of the job they are doing. Today we have people believing that mass shooting deaths are higher than ever though the facts do not support that. They believe that taking guns away from good people will stop bad people from using theirs though our history books are filled with what happens when that occurs. And many believe that taking the responsibility of raising and educating our kids is an improvement over parenting and then just can't understand the results of those actions.

The writing is on the wall, so it will continue, that some of that aren't extreme right wingers and some of extreme right wingers will continue to fight and support our organization so we can continue to live in a free society where crimes will happen but not near as often or near as big as they would be and have been through out history when ever the government was able to disarm their people. And we will continue to fight for the rights of people who just can't see the consequences of what is happening in our world today. Does any one think that the good citizens of every country in the Middle East today, the good citizens of Germany during the Nazi regime, the good citizens of the Soviet Union during the Stalin era, or even the citizens of Australia of today would like to have some mode or tool of defense available to them. If you think our problems are bad how about the countries in the news that don't have guns but their criminals are smart enough to have knives, rocks, explosives, and some have even used airplanes. We need to worry about people and not tools as they will always be available even if outlawed..
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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by deke » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:26 am

Neil wrote:
demsdogs wrote:No.

I think they are a dangerous organization and I am horrified by just about everything they stand for. I am a responsible gun owner and hunter, and they do not represent me.
That reads anti-NRA to me, do you read it otherwise?

Neil that is one person, and notice I said MOST. Most does not mean all. Watch out for the black helicopters Neil they might be out to get you!!!!!!!! :lol:

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by nikegundog » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:37 pm

Well this year our Democrat controlled Senate, Republican controlled House and Democrat Governor signed into law the NRA backed bill.
"SF 878 contains the following pro-Second Amendment provisions:

Prohibits any government agency from confiscating or regulating the lawful possession, carrying, transfer, transportation and defensive use of firearms or ammunition during a state of emergency, like the actions that occurred in the wake of Hurricane Katrina;

Aligns Minnesota with more than 40 other states that have conformed their statutes to federal law so that their residents can purchase rifles and shotguns in non-contiguous states, provided that the purchase or transfer complies with state and federal law;

Modifies the Capitol Carry Notification provision (current statute allows permit holders to carry on the capitol complex as long as permit holders “notify the sheriff or the commissioner of public safety, as appropriate.” This legislation would update and clarify the statute to provide that application for a permit constitutes “notification”);

Provides a language change to help resolve carry permit reciprocity issues;

Legalizes ownership and possession of firearm sound suppressors (suppressors are legal to own under federal law and in 39 other states).

“On behalf of the NRA’s five-million members, I'd like to thank Speaker Kurt Daudt and Senate Majority Leader Tom Bakk for their tremendous leadership on this issue, as well as the large group of bipartisan lawmakers who supported this bill. We are grateful for all they’ve done to defend freedom in Minnesota.”
It is ignorant, to assume this anti-gun movement fall strictly down party lines. One needs to look no further that the views put worth by BOTH Parties leading Presidential candidates, as well as previous ones.

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Re: Are you an NRA member?

Post by Pheasanttracker » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:42 pm

yes life member for quite some time. i would also recommend DU, PF, and RGS.

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