AKC Gundog Nationals

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:07 am

All is ok out at the grounds. They did shut down the trial, and a storm did hit, but luckily not a tornado. Surrounding areas weren't so lucky. This is a good time for us all to remember that while to us, this event is so important, to so many others out there..... we ain't important one little bit.

Sunshine today, temps in the 50's and no bad weather on the horizon for at least the next couple of days.
Fuzz

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:44 pm

Thx for updaye...Congrats on Louie!

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:14 pm

1a.HANK SORENSON
1b. BET KING
2a. LUCKY WEST
2b. DIXON FOUNTAIN
3a. BANNER LORENSON
3b. BITTY Dohse
4a. GIGI TRACY
4b. BELLA DIXON
5a. LADY DOHSE
5b.BANDIT Tracy
6a. MASON DOHSE
6b. LOUIE WEST

BRACED IN THAT ORDER 3 AM 3 PM

snips · Post by **snips** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:16 pm

Congrats to all!!!

Vonrommel · Post by **Vonrommel** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:14 pm

hi-tailyn wrote:1a.HANK SORENSON
1b. BET KING
2a. LUCKY WEST
2b. DIXON FOUNTAIN
3a. BANNER LORENSON
3b. BITTY Dohse
4a. GIGI TRACY
4b. BELLA DIXON
5a. LADY DOHSE
5b.BANDIT Tracy
6a. MASON DOHSE
6b. LOUIE WEST

BRACED IN THAT ORDER 3 AM 3 PM

Congrats to all that made the second series!!!!!

I thought I'd add a little just for fun.

Looking at the dogs that were called back, (12) all were "posted dogs". One can also see that 6 of these dogs went birdless in the 1st series, 2 of the dogs had 2 finds and 4 had single finds.

5 of the dogs that were called back ran the AM course and 7 ran the PM course. Of these, 2 will run the PM course a second time and 1 will run the AM course a second time, the rest (9 dogs) will flip-flop. (Meaning that if they originally ran the AM course, they will now run the PM course.)

The reporter used several words to describe their braces, such as "powerful Race", "Very impressive race", "Hunted the front with purpose", "Strong forward race", "Testing the limits" and the best one for last, "Intelligent race that was powerful and reaching". All of the descriptions one would expect of National caliber ground races.

I also noticed that Dohse has 3 dogs in the 2nd series, I believe Ray uses most of his dogs on the plantation, so I cant help but imagine that those dogs were "right at home" on these grounds. But, only 1 of his 3 had birds, so who knows? Tracy has 2, West has 2 and Lorensen has 2.

Looks like the judges are looking for the same thing most of us are, and they seem to have several nice ones to look at!

Anywho, I just thought I'd share some food for thought, as I thought it was interesting, means absolutely nothing more.

I do wish the best of luck to all of those who have made it to the second series, have fun and let em roll!

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:31 pm

Out of the 6 that went birdless how many had unproductives? Is there to much emphasis on run and not enough on bird finding ability. I know it's a trail but a dog should have bird work to be called back.

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:39 pm

Did the judges hand pick dogs to run with each other and on a particular course? Looking over the write ups for the first 10 days of the 6 hour courses, I counted up bird contacts per brace. Bored while sitting at home instead of having fun there.

Course 1. had 2 bird contact during 2 days, 8 days w/o contacts.
Course 2. had 7 bird contact during 4 days, 6 days w/o contacts.
Course 3. had 4 bird contact during 2 days, 8 days w/o contacts.
Course 4. had 9 bird contact during 6 days, 3 days w/o contacts, 2 days did not run on.
Course 5. had 4 bird contact during 2 days, 6 days w/o contacts, 2 days did not run on.
Course 6. had 7 bird contact during 5 days, 3 days w/o contacts, 2 days did not run on.

Looks like course 4 & 6 have birds that are out and about for more days, and are more likely to get pointed.

Good luck to all and hope they make it tough on the judges.

Vonrommel · Post by **Vonrommel** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:47 pm

volraider wrote:Out of the 6 that went birdless how many had unproductives? Is there to much emphasis on run and not enough on bird finding ability. I know it's a trail but a dog should have bird work to be called back.

No you don't. You need a find to win, but not to make the 2nd series.

Only 4 of the 12 dogs called back had NP's, and of that 4, one was a rabbit (see brace 34, dog B - Bet) Quote "When her handler walked in to flush a rabbit was observed leaving the area, and she was taken on"

Also said, quote " Bet put in a solid 60 minutes. She had a good race, displaying her power and conditioning. She was forward and going away at time."

And that was a GSP, so one would expect at least one pointed rabbit by a feather and fur dog in a 2 week trial.

Of the other three, one was Bella in brace 14, and the write up says, quote "Bella ran a very purposeful race. Her pattern was wide, to the front, and very strong. She hunted the covers well, applying herself to the objectives presented her. At 42 minutes she was pointing into a known covey haunt with arresting style. Her handler was unable to produce birds and she was taken on. She finished the hour with the same snap that she had started with."

Another was Dixon in brace 32, and it reads, Quote "At 6 minutes, Dixon pointed nicely but no birds could be produced and he was taken on. Both dogs at this point were very powerful on the ground and impressed with their application. At 30 minutes point was called for Dixon with his scout reporting that a bird had left as he approached. His handler decided to try to flush and was able to produce a bird over the stylish Vizsla. )Not a Vizsla)Both dogs finished the hour strongly."

And the last one was Lucky, Brace 37, and it reads quote "Lucky testing the limits. Both dogs finished the hour and both dogs seemed to have gas in the tank at time."

Aint none of em perfect!!!!!!

Don't get hung up on the NP's, LET IT GO MAN, LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!!

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:00 am

The judges decided on how to rebrace the dogs for todays final running, guess they had a plan in their heads.

It's gonna be a long day sitting here and waiting to hear how they did....... of course I"m rooting for my dog, but I hope they all do a good job.

It was a great event, hats off to all the AKC reps that were there working their tails off for the last 2 weeks! Without them..... it would not have gotten done. Trish James and Ken Blackman also deserve a huge pat on the back.
Fuzz

Ken Lynch · Post by **Ken Lynch** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:02 am

From the get-go it was also stated that winner would be determined by combined performance first and second series. Congratulations to all who made it the second series.

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:07 am

Jeff, they SHOULD have bird work to be called back. You could run grey hounds with the same results without the bird work. When you talk about the best of the best they should have bird work to even be considered.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:32 am

volraider wrote:Jeff, they SHOULD have bird work to be called back. You could run grey hounds with the same results without the bird work. When you talk about the best of the best they should have bird work to even be considered.

What I hear, is that the first am course really hasn't produced birds at all...and some believe that to be a function of the logging truck traffic. So if that's the case and you draw that course...it's what? Tough hop?

And yeah you could run sight hounds with the same result...but the result for these pointing dogs, will be that the placing dogs are gonna have bird work, in one, or both series.

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:48 am

Vol, don't worry, any dog who places in this will have birds... some will have multiple finds. Some had birds in the first series, some will have their in the 2nd, some hopefully will have them in both!

I don't think there was so much emphasis put on run, but rather on application! There is a huge difference in a dog that run big if they don't use the grounds, the wind, the terrain and the cover to their best advantage and a dog that runs and uses it all. In this event, I believe it is the second type of dog that got the nod and invited back to prove themselves. The dogs had to be strong- had to finish strong, and unfortunately some who had birds in the first series just fell flat and couldn't finish strong.

None of the dogs entered in this events were slackers- but for many- it just wasn't their day. It happens.
Fuzz

Vonrommel · Post by **Vonrommel** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:47 am

volraider wrote:Jeff, they SHOULD have bird work to be called back. You could run grey hounds with the same results without the bird work. When you talk about the best of the best they should have bird work to even be considered.

Brian,
You and I are really good friends so I know I can make an example that is kind of personal and you won't get offended, so lets do that, and in your favored area too!

Lets say you and I are braced together in a grouse trial, your Dixie dog and my Chase. Chase chooses to stay closer to the roads and has 2 finds during our brace, not much run, didn't really dig into the cover but had a decent day because he just happen to run by where the birds were.
Dixie dug into the cover deep, hunted it hard, went the extra mile, stayed with you all the way to the end and never let down but she only had one find, a non productive. You knew in your heart that there was a bird there and it had left before you arrived, but still a NP on the score card my friend.

Is my dog a better grouse dog than yours?

Was he at least the better dog that day?

If we were the judges top 2 dogs of the day, would you call her back to the second series because she just absolutely blew all the other dogs away with her application and desire to find birds, or would you tell Brian derrick "Tough Luck Kid"?

Does Chase then deserve 1st place?

Not in my mind, the 1st place would be withheld because he didn't measure up.

I believe that's some of what your looking at here.

Plus, you really need to understand how pre-released birds act when they have been pressured, to really understand the NP part of your comments. The pre released birds don't sit still like wild birds,they dont lay down in fear like dizzied pen birds, they tend to run and run, away from what ever is chasing them. Now imagine a handler walking in front of the pointed dog, birds running away, the handler starts at the dogs nose and flushes away from dog, circles a few times than decides to re-locate dog. Dog moves forward points running birds again and same thing happens. The handler decides it's best to take a NP and move on, is that the dog's fault or the handlers fault? I think that may be the cause of some of the NP's you have been asking about.

You need to get you a horse and sit in the saddle for a few trials so you understand bro.

Vonrommel · Post by **Vonrommel** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:12 am

Wyndancer wrote:
volraider wrote:Jeff, they SHOULD have bird work to be called back. You could run grey hounds with the same results without the bird work. When you talk about the best of the best they should have bird work to even be considered.
What I hear, is that the first am course really hasn't produced birds at all...and some believe that to be a function of the logging truck traffic. So if that's the case and you draw that course...it's what? Tough hop?

And yeah you could run sight hounds with the same result...but the result for these pointing dogs, will be that the placing dogs are gonna have bird work, in one, or both series.

Wyn,
Interestingly enough, 4 of the 6 dogs that went birdless and were called back, ran the 2nd brace of the AM course (course 2)!

Of the other other 2 that went birdless, one was on course 5, and the write-up states, Quote "This pair of dogs ran under less than ideal conditions. The day was warming and the east wind was making scenting conditions poor at best."

And the last one was on course 4, there were no comments given on conditions, both dogs in the brace went birdless.

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:59 am

Don't know if anyone posting on this site is there at the AKC Nationals, that has been there and watched the "National Championship".

With them running 3 separate one hour courses that start each time at a specific location.

Just looking to get some idea of ground coverage of these dogs vs the All Age Championship.

1st. How far through the morning or afternoon course do the dogs use up during the "National Championship"? Have any ever used up the entire course?

2nd. Have any of these AKC dogs used up their 1 hour course. I know some have run the entire hour. Have any run from one start area to the next start area?

Are they using about the same amount of course, just different application?

Just curious.

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:46 am

volraider wrote:Jeff, they SHOULD have bird work to be called back. You could run grey hounds with the same results without the bird work. When you talk about the best of the best they should have bird work to even be considered.

If you havn't ridden every brace how would you know what anybody did!!!! You can't judge a trial on the internet. I for one appreciate what the judges have gone thru the last tweleve days in order to arrive at the final 12 dogs. My hats of to those three well qualified gentlemen.

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:13 pm

I rode with Nick Thompson for a couple of braces (in fact, he scouted my dog and several others that ran) and I asked him what the difference was between us and them.
He thought that the pointers probably used up more country then our dogs were doing, but some he thought were using the terrain and grounds in a very similar fashion.

My dog ran on course 5, broke away at a road, ended at the next road......did we cover the same amt of course in that hour? Without being there to ride and watch the pointers, I can't answer.

One thing about Ames grounds, they are tight not big open prairie lands in any way. A dog that just takes one edge and keeps going... you better have a good scout who knows where the heck he is going. There are lines that run every which way and some dogs hooked one edge and just simply went the wrong way. There are some tricky corners there. The vast majority of handlers and their scouts have never run a dog there before, heck most had never ridden there before at all!

Fuzz

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:34 pm

Hank lost, Bets no, lucky lost, Dixon around , had birds first series, Banner and Bitty birdless and both needed birds. That was the 1st 3 braces.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:55 pm

Just from the reports of the grounds and first series, my bet is the winner comes from the last brace. Could be an "ugly" end to the event.

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:14 pm

If you havn't ridden every brace how would you know what anybody did!!!! You can't judge a trial on the internet. I for one appreciate what the judges have gone thru the last tweleve days in order to arrive at the final 12 dogs. My hats of to those three well qualified gentlemen.myerstenn

I can read and the heading says it's a bird dog trial! Don't see anything any where about a dog race! No Birds = not deserving. If you don't have a dog deserving then you withhold placements. You only reward dogs that earn it, this is not rec league where everyone that enters gets a trophy!

Jeff,

I would be tickled with a NP out of Dixie!

I wouldn't reward Chase just to be rewarding him. From the sounds of your example neither one deserves to be called back. Now if we were hunting I would take chase's effort every day of the week over Dixie's but we are trialing and we want the best dog on that day to give a trophy too. If they were the only 2 in the trial I would withhold placements.

I also know that this is a first for dogs and handlers at ames and I would expect better results next year.

Hopefully in the future I will get to spend some more time in the saddle at the trials.

Vonrommel · Post by **Vonrommel** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:37 pm

hi-tailyn wrote:Don't know if anyone posting on this site is there at the AKC Nationals, that has been there and watched the "National Championship".

With them running 3 separate one hour courses that start each time at a specific location.

Just looking to get some idea of ground coverage of these dogs vs the All Age Championship.

1st. How far through the morning or afternoon course do the dogs use up during the "National Championship"? Have any ever used up the entire course?2nd. Have any of these AKC dogs used up their 1 hour course. I know some have run the entire hour. Have any run from one start area to the next start area?

Are they using about the same amount of course, just different application?

Just curious.

I was riding in the gallery last year at the national and was lucky enough to be right behind the judges for all of Ike Todd and Touch's White Out's winning brace, on the AM course, he almost used it all and had 6 finds in the 3 hours plus one right at time that did not count.

The AM course starts out across the road from, and heading away from, the stables. At the 1.5 hour mark you are usually back at the road crossing between the Manor and the Stables. Some folks who have not kept up to the gallery will normally cut back to the stables at that point and I'd guess it to be about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile (if that much) away from the stable to the right of the course at that point. I have seen other dogs use all of the AM course, plus some.

Any updates on what is happening down there?

Vonrommel · Post by **Vonrommel** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:46 pm

volraider wrote:
If you havn't ridden every brace how would you know what anybody did!!!! You can't judge a trial on the internet. I for one appreciate what the judges have gone thru the last tweleve days in order to arrive at the final 12 dogs. My hats of to those three well qualified gentlemen.myerstenn

I can read and the heading says it's a bird dog trial! Don't see anything any where about a dog race! No Birds = not deserving. If you don't have a dog deserving then you withhold placements. You only reward dogs that earn it, this is not rec league where everyone that enters gets a trophy!

Jeff,

I would be tickled with a NP out of Dixie!

I wouldn't reward Chase just to be rewarding him. From the sounds of your example neither one deserves to be called back. Now if we were hunting I would take chase's effort every day of the week over Dixie's but we are trialing and we want the best dog on that day to give a trophy too. If they were the only 2 in the trial I would withhold placements.

I also know that this is a first for dogs and handlers at ames and I would expect better results next year.

Hopefully in the future I will get to spend some more time in the saddle at the trials.

Thankfully we have the right to our own opinions in the great United States. You have yours, and I have mine, they do not have to mesh and we can both be OK with it.

And all of the people that entered a dog are asking for 3 guys opinion of who has the best dog. They are looking for, what seems to me anyway, a powerful forward dog, as most that those 3 guys called back had a powerful 1st performance. I wish I were there!

Your dixie dog would smoke any of mine in the woods!

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:41 pm

AKC Gun Dog Championship placements:

1. Bella (pointer) w/Dixon
2. Lady (gsp) w/Dohse
3. Dixon (Gsp) w/Fountain
4. Bandit (Brittany) w/Tracy

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:44 pm

Congrats to Greg, Justin, and Bella!!!

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:10 pm

Congrats to all of dogs, handlers, and owners. Nice to see the different breeds place in a trial of this kind.

Ezzy

dockgsp · Post by **dockgsp** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:55 am

Thanks to the judges for their saddle time.

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:59 am

fuzznut wrote:I rode with Nick Thompson for a couple of braces (in fact, he scouted my dog and several others that ran) and I asked him what the difference was between us and them.
He thought that the pointers probably used up more country then our dogs were doing, but some he thought were using the terrain and grounds in a very similar fashion.

My dog ran on course 5, broke away at a road, ended at the next road......did we cover the same amt of course in that hour? Without being there to ride and watch the pointers, I can't answer.

One thing about Ames grounds, they are tight not big open prairie lands in any way. A dog that just takes one edge and keeps going... you better have a good scout who knows where the heck he is going. There are lines that run every which way and some dogs hooked one edge and just simply went the wrong way. There are some tricky corners there. The vast majority of handlers and their scouts have never run a dog there before, heck most had never ridden there before at all!

Fuzz

All I'll add to this is this....It must be quite an accomplishment, and a testament, to the AA Pointers that run there.

Congrats to Greg, Justin & Bella.

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:03 am

To the winners, huge congratulations! It was a great test of the dogs and of the handlers.
To Ames- thank you for allowing us to come and run our dogs.
To the town of Grand Junction- you welcomed us with true southern hospitality, and it was delightful to see how proud you all are of the bird dog heritage there.
To AKC staff- wow! Your commitment to ensuring this event happen and in with the style and class you made it happen with is a testament to your dedication to the dogs and the sport. From the beagle guys, to the spaniel guys, to all our pointing breed reps. Thanks!
And to the committee... Trish and Ken - good work.

It may sound sappy, but having the opportunity to run a GWP on the Ames Plantation, and to have him make the final 12 is one of the highlights of our trial career. To his handlers, Jim West and Rhonda Haukoos.... you could never disapoint me! Now go take care of those Louie x Kitty puppies!

Next year, Branched Oak Nebraska.
Fuzz

Vonrommel · Post by **Vonrommel** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:49 pm

Congratulations to those that got to run there, those that made the call-back and those that placed. These are truely hollowed grounds, rich in bird dog history and the town is truely amazing to all who are involved. The locals really love and appreciate the people that come there to chase their dreams and welcome you with open arms.

I remember my first trip there. I knew I wanted to stop by Wilson Dunn's store and get a couple of things but I also wanted to ride through the Ames Plantation too. After stopping by Dunn's sporting goods for 2 nylon roading harnesses, a few collars and one national championship video of Dunn's Fearless Bud, that I really didn't need, but somehow got suckered into buying by Wilson himself, I made it to the grounds.

Wilson would have it no other way than to give me and my friend a ride through the place in his little Ford Ranger pick-up. He showed us the break-away points, the road crossings and all of the other places most known to those who had been coming there for years and I felt right at home there with him in his small pick-up. He took the time out of his schedule to show a couple of nobodys the way around and tell us stories that I will never forget. He was a good man, one who truely loved the sport, and I'll never forget him taking the time to show us around the great place. I'll never forget the time I first rode a horse on the place or the last time I was there and followed the dogs around the course either as it is truely amazing.

If you were able to run your bird dog on those grounds, reguardless if you made the second series or not, you were very fortunate to live the dream! Congrats to all on a job well done!!!!!

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:01 am

fuzznut wrote:It may sound sappy, but having the opportunity to run a GWP on the Ames Plantation, and to have him make the final 12 is one of the highlights of our trial career. Fuzz

Congrats, that is awesome, I'd be super pumped! Definitely something to be proud of!

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:54 pm

Sounds like a super cool deal! Congrats to the winners - heckuvaccomplishment!!

Anaconda Pintler · Post by **Anaconda Pintler** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:38 am

So lets see the picture on the big steps!!!!

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:56 am

No steps. Just a banner.

Looks like out in front and to the side of the steps. They were close.

You see the stair railing on right side.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:33 am

Nice shot - well deserved!

Interesting pic...3 breeds but hard to tell which is which!!

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:42 am

DGFavor wrote:Nice shot - well deserved! Interesting pic...3 breeds but hard to tell which is which!!

If that britt had a longer tail it'd be a pointer. Maybe it is.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:53 am

WOW, my first dog was a Brit. Boy have they "changed".

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:57 am

Boy, Tom Milam dressed for the occasion!

Anaconda Pintler · Post by **Anaconda Pintler** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:39 pm

Umm that is not the big steps, that there would be the steps to the new clubhouse!

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:25 pm

One "step" at a time, hehehe! Maybe next time (if there is a next time) they will let us into the yard at the Big House, then maybe the steps in the background, then near them,... heck, I'll be dead by the time we are ever allowed ON them steps!
Fuzz

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:40 pm

fuzznut wrote:One "step" at a time, hehehe! Maybe next time (if there is a next time) they will let us into the yard at the Big House, then maybe the steps in the background, then near them,... heck, I'll be dead by the time we are ever allowed ON them steps!
Fuzz

So, What was the "vibe" during and shortly after the event? Would people like to go back? In the same format?

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:23 pm

the "buzz" may be that dogs without birds shouldn't make the 2nd. But we have to remember that this year was something special, different and may never happen again. Ames may not invite us back, and who knows if we will ask to go back? There are a lot of conditions that will contribute to either/or.

When the Pointer Championship happens here, birds are released in advance, not the day of, but in advance. That left us with birds that had been released many many weeks in advance.

We hear that we want a wild bird event, and this venue may have wild (well sort of wild) birds on the grounds, but unless you get lucky and draw the course that seems to be holding the birds, how do we limit it to dogs with finds only? Tis a dilemma!

I dislike mulitple course for many reasons... one, the dogs don't get equal opportunities. One course may be open with lots of room to show their stuff, the next course may hold a lot of chutes and cover, the next course the wind is totally different, on and on and on. Some courses may hold birds, the next not so much.

I dont' know that there is a venue out there that is perfect, but the good thing about rotating it around the country is that all types of dogs get to show their stuff in all sorts of country. And some dogs show well in all sorts of country.

Just my opinion from attending a whole bunch of these things!

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:48 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:WOW, my first dog was a Brit. Boy have they "changed".

Thanks for POINTING it out for those of us that didn't realize there was more than two breeds.... Wow.

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:50 pm

Wyndancer wrote:
fuzznut wrote:One "step" at a time, hehehe! Maybe next time (if there is a next time) they will let us into the yard at the Big House, then maybe the steps in the background, then near them,... heck, I'll be dead by the time we are ever allowed ON them steps!
Fuzz
So, What was the "vibe" during and shortly after the event? Would people like to go back? In the same format?

I would definitely go back! I'm hoping that the event will be held at Ames quite a bit in the future. These grounds are truly testing for bird dogs. I found the courses to be fairly even. Course 1 was perhaps the least favorable in my opinion.

Ames does an early release (fall) of 3500 birds to add to the wild population. Not very many when you consider the amount of acreage. There are 500 birds released before the Championship. No birds were released before the AKC event.

I think it was quite fair to call back dogs who were birdless in the first series when you consider the conditions that some of them ran under. We had some days of higher temps and those birdless dogs were clearly deserving to be called back as they ran very nice races. I rode just about every day and feel that the three judges did a great job.

The folks running the event did a bang up job and deserve to be applauded!!

hi-tailyn · Post by **hi-tailyn** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:42 am

DGFavor wrote:Nice shot - well deserved! Interesting pic...3 breeds but hard to tell which is which!!

I think it is a testament to how hard it is to judge a event like this. Taking all the pointing breeds and having them compete against each other on the same grounds. How do you define the guidelines for the event. Each breed runs and hunts a different way and range. Does it ultimately come down to them all trying to equal the pointer?

From what I heard. The pointer is run in gun dog/shooting dog stakes. The GSP's run in gun dog/shooting dog/all age stakes. The Brittany just ran and placed in the All Age Nationals at Booneville this year. I think all the 2nd series dogs were the same for their breed. shooting dog Pointer, shooting dog GSP, all age Brittany.

Is this event different on these grounds? Were we looking to equal what the All Age pointers do? That has been a problem with our GSP's for years. I think it may be the same for each breed. Trying to compete with the next more athletic breed.

I know I run my GSP's in the all age stakes at Brittany trials when I can. Most Brittany all age stakes are closed to outside breeds. Any maybe that's the way to do it. So they remain true to their breed and standard and not be like another breed.

IMHO

kbdogs · Post by **kbdogs** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:51 pm

OK. I'm just catching up on emails from the last month. I had one dog (an AB) that Al Gorrow ran for me-I really didn't have the time to do that with all my other duties (among them was the dog wagon and on road marshall). Nick Thompson scouted Cash and he went birdless. From all account, Nick among them, Cash ran the best of any dog he scouted and probably as well for an hour, of any dog he's scouted over the years he's scouted the pointers there. In addtition, I ran my 11 yo, Frenchie, Tank on the second hour course in the morning (you can see pictures on the AKC web site). Tank had a 2 find performance, never was behind and ran a pretty strong forward race for an old guy (BTW he was the oldest dog running in the GDC). So, with all that said (and my disappointment noted here), I would have to just about agree with everything that's been posted here. The accounts posted on the AKC site and on FB have been very accurate, except for one detail that was not often noted. The number of UP's was 81. Even after 2 UP's most dogs were not taken up. The judges were very open to leaving a dog down in order to see what he/she was made of on these Championship grounds. My hats off to the judges for this point. Some were lost and found with the Garmins and Tracker's. Not many though. There were (if my count is correct) 29 peices of clean bird work. Several dogs had more than 2 finds, but didn't have good work and were picked up or not carried by the judges for other reasons (Failure to Back, too many steps after the flush, stop to flush on a relocation, etc.). And by a count of the marshall the gallery had 14 flushes where a dog was not involved.

So why so many UPs. Someone before noted it without understanding the significance of what they said. Early in the trial, handlers were looking for birds under the dog's nose-a throwback to running on throwdown birds that is pretty much derugier' in AKC one course trials. The birds were probably 30 yds ahead of the pointed dogs. These were outstanding dogs with great noses. The handlers just didn't understand what they had to do to get ahead of the running birds. Once relocated the dogs never could get the birds pinned and most just got taken on. WRONG! Letting the dog figure it out would have certainly got the point made. (this was the case on Tank's 2nd point-he made a 50 yd. cast to loop around the running birds and got ahead of them and I put them up between him and I).

If you were to compare what our Shooting/Gun/AA dogs did vs. the AA Pointers and Setters at the National, it's really a rocks vs. lemons comparison. Only 2 dogs had ever run on Ames before and only 1 handler had ever run a dog at Ames before. Out 9 AKC breeds did a very creditble job. A couple more times there, and it would be a different count. But by all estimates from those in the Gallery that have been watching bird dogs at Ames for years was the they handled well, with lots of class. We earned lots of cred by running at Ames and our people have made the Grand Junction community and Ames staff stand up and commend us on running a class operation.

I hope we get asked to come back to Ames in the near future.

Ken Blackman
Williston, TN.