Low number of entries

[Crestonegsp]

The Chukar had a pretty small turn out:

22 OSD
6 OAA
11 ASD
4 DC

At the meeting we discussed a number of ways to get more entries. What would some of you suggest? What would get you to come on out to the Chukar Championship? We usually get a nice entry from CA, but this year only Don Fidler and Don Dalton showed up.

The grounds are fantastic. I would be so bold as to say some of the best in the country. I'll get some pictures posted later when I have more time.

Thanks for any input

Doris J. Schoenfelder

[SwitchGrassWPG]

Entires in all dog events are down and have been declining the past few years. One could take a look at the economy and correlate the two for an assumption why this is happening...

Jay

[mm]

I wonder if walking trials have more entrys than horseback trials. There are several trials I would love to be in but I am not a skilled horseman so I dont go. The foot trials I attend seem to have a large attandance.
mm

[remmy]

Walking trials generally have more entries. One reason is a lot of trialers do not own horses or cannot ride one. Another reason is newcomers to the sport get their feet wet in walking trials, again because there are no horses. Also, aside from AF, the competition isn't as great because there aren't too many pros there.

We have that problem with entries on the east coast too. I think it's a coastal thing. Midwest never has a problem. No doubt the White Mtns seem beautiful...I for one would love to go there but will not travel across country. The midwesterners are centralized to travel pretty much anywhere.

I hate to say it, but NGSPA Championships have been seeing less and less entries. The old timers with great dogs are retiring from the sport and there aren't any newcomers entering in Championships. They would rather run in AKC or don't know about AF. AKC trials keep growing. I know when I first started the only thing I knew was AKC. I had no idea what AF or NGSPA was. That can be a problem to someone just starting out. Maybe they need to advertise more? I don't know. You talk to new dog owners and they will tell you what AKC is but do not have a clue about AF or NGSPA. Why is that?

The main factor right now, however, is the economy.

[Wagonmaster]

Sorry, but just not true. Participation has actually been up or stable at other hour events during the down economy, and there are not only events that are growing, there are new events coming on line. The main factor is that there are a couple of pros who used to go to the Chukar, who are now working with owners in a different part of the country than they used to, and so they don't go to the Chukar, but now do go to the Quail and other events they couldn't make in the past. The problem the NGSPA has right now, if you can call it a "problem," is too much success, a very crowded calendar both spring and fall, not too little. Competition for the Dog of the Year and Handler of the Year awards is stiff. Yes the East Coast is not what it once was. But the fall wild bird trials in MT and NE are SRO, as are the Reg. 8 and Hun.

[jasonw99]

I can speak for myself. I don't participate because of the expense of the horse part. Seems like there would be horses to rent or use to build up new participants The trials I have been to seems like a major generation gap.

[Casper]

here is a suggestion......................move the trial back up north to some real chukar habitat, Nevada, Oregon, Idaho and move the date into September

I know of a few places and I know a few people that could name a few places

[Elroy's Bandit]

Last Fall & this past spring it appeared that the championship entries were relatively stable, and I am very interested to see how the fall goes with our economy in worse shape now than last year at this time. I think as far as AKC vs. AF in popularity & entries...AKC is a very old and established organization in which they provide services, products, information, and access to every breed and all facets of dog ownership. breeding, training, health issues, etc. I would venture to guess that 95% of potential 1st time purchasers of a new puppy or dog checks in with where else but the AKC to research breeds, temperaments, size etc. Naturally trialers just venturing into this sport might gravitate to an organization that they are familiar with. JMO
Bill L.

[dan v]

I have spoken with Chris Benskin about the GSP of MN's FT at Solon this weekend, but the last I did chat with him about it...he had 20 entries in hand, with some 30 "saying" they were coming. The Gordon FT at Solon the following weekend? I have 5 dogs right now.

So maybe the entries are holding for the GSP hour events, but I fear they are shrinking at the 30 min AKC events.

[Crl]

I have spoken with Chris Benskin about the GSP of MN's FT at Solon this weekend, but the last I did chat with him about it...he had 20 entries in hand, with some 30 "saying" they were coming. The Gordon FT at Solon the following weekend? I have 5 dogs right now.

So maybe the entries are holding for the GSP hour events, but I fear they are shrinking at the 30 min AKC events.

I think location as a large part to do with it as well. I was in Portage, WI for the the Four Lakes GSP this past weekend and they had to cancel the AM Ltd stake due to time. They had 136 dogs entered.
Here is what the running order had.

OLGD 40 entries
AGD 31 entires
OD 14 entries
OGD 33 entris
AmLGD 18 Entries

For those of us trial here in the northland I think we better get used to the idea that folks are not going to come this far to attend a trial. With just the trials that are within a few hours of me there is the Eastern IA GSP Club on the same weekend as the MN GSP event. The Erbe extravaganza in NE, the WI GSP club and the Fort Dearborn GSP club are all having events the same weekend as the GS in Solon. There are just to many events in locations that can draw from the small # of people that field trial. My 2 cents.

Clark

[dan v]

Clark,

You know my feelings. I love that Solon Springs, a true test of a dog. But something near the I-35/I-90 area would be killer.

[Brian Smith]

For what it's worth, your running a trial at the beginning of the season against some major wild bird trials up north of you. With the Sharptail and Chicken championships running mid September.And AKC trials in Nebraska before and after those events.
You have pros training up north, and they bring in the amatuers who come to their camps to train for a few weeks before the trials begin. Pros from Iowa, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio,Wisconsin, Georgia, Texas are all up north from Nebraska,through the Dakotas not to mention the folks from Wyoming and Colorado who are in their own back yard. The Sharptail had more entries in the OSD than your whole trial, 54 dogs.
I would say you would have to rethink what you have to offer the trialers as far as dates, complementing AKC weekend events, and status of the event (wild vs. planted birds).
I know arrainging dates to use state grounds can be limiting factors, but in an area like Arizona a later fall date would seem to bring more entries from people wanting to run their dogs in cooler weather.

[Wagonmaster]

There are some misconceptions starting in this thread. First, the Chukar, although held in AZ, is not a hot weather trial because it is held in the White Mountains, at altitude. Second, it is a long standing and successful NGSPA trial. Pros used to use the White Mountains for summer training, less do today but there are still a number who do. That is important because it is the number of pros coming to a particular trial, and the number of dogs they have on their string, that dictates how big the trial will be. That is particularly true of the hour championships. Although not universally true, much of the amateur participation in the hour championships is rank amateurs like me, going to the trial their pro is going to, to run the dog in the Am.

Trials have their ups and downs over a period of years. The Chukar was down a little this year because there were one or two pros who went in the past, and who did not go this year. The people who run the Chukar will see to it that it remains successful.

The Chukar is very unique in that it still uses a "shoot on course" format. The first bird pointed on the course is shot for the dog, for a retrieve. That could not be done in most places, because it would be out of season and illegal, or the shooting would be on wild birds and therefore illegal. Its a great trial and there have been some truly amazing pieces of work by dogs there, because of the shoot on course. I vividly remember the first account I read of the Chukar, where Heinz Ahlman's multiple time National Champion, Slick Dixie's Tarkus, was sent for a retrieve and had to unerringly work his way through a covey that had not been shot at, in order to retrieve the shot bird to hand in order to win the trial.

[original mngsp]

I have spoken with Chris Benskin about the GSP of MN's FT at Solon this weekend, but the last I did chat with him about it...he had 20 entries in hand, with some 30 "saying" they were coming. The Gordon FT at Solon the following weekend? I have 5 dogs right now.

I expect to have around 65 or so entries when we close tomorrow evening. This compares to roughly 115 we ran last fall. The biggest difference here is that instead of 4-5 pros last year we have 2 this year. While its a beautiful location with nice grounds and great facilities it is somewhat limiting due to the fact that its not really on anyone's normal pathway back home or near any of the championships that run out west. We also have the same weekend as Eastern Iowa GSPC this year also.

This will be our clubs third trial this year and all have been down on entries.

[BigShooter]

As I understand it the derbies at an AF hour Species or Region championship are basically just for fun. If the derbies were AKC sanctioned & run under AKC rules you might get a few more entries with owners seeking AKC points on western grounds. For amateurs that decide to attend to pursue derby points this might provide some NGSPA/AF hour stakes exposure to newbies that have only run AKC trials. I know it sounds a bit weird but the OSD, OAA & ASD could be run NGSPA/AF or dual sanctioned while the derby is run AKC. As has been mentioned in recent posts the AF age eligibility for derbies is different than the AKC rules so the derbies can't be dual sanctioned.

[BigShooter]

As I understand it the derbies at an AF hour Species or Region championship are basically just for fun. If the derbies were AKC sanctioned & run under AKC rules you might get a few more entries with owners seeking AKC points on western grounds. For amateurs that decide to attend to pursue derby points this might provide some NGSPA/AF hour stakes exposure to newbies that have only run AKC trials. I know it sounds a bit weird but the OSD, OAA & ASD could be run NGSPA/AF or dual sanctioned while the derby is run AKC. As has been mentioned in recent posts the AF age eligibility for derbies is different than the AKC rules so the derbies can't be dual sanctioned.

Personally I would have taken one or two young dogs to the Region 8 & the Hun this year if the derbies had been AKC sanctioned. I would have ridden some of the hour braces while I was there to see some of the great dogs work & to assess my interest in pursuing hour trials.