Shartail Classic / Ekalaka, MT

[Johnk]

Do we have any running order yet or will it be drawn tomorrow? Also what Pro's are going to be there?

[Crl]

I believe a drawing will take place tonight for the stake that begins in the morning. My dog Abbie will be there with Dennis Brath. Now with that said he will not be running any of the dogs in his string if the weather is to hot.

Crl

[original mngsp]

weather doesnt look too bad http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/USMT0103

[DGFavor]

Now with that said he will not be running any of the dogs in his string if the weather is to hot.

You're kidding right??

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Now with that said he will not be running any of the dogs in his string if the weather is to hot.

You're kidding right??

Ain't no reason to try to kill em, Doc!

[DGFavor]

Oh man, I'm not talking about killing 'em!! But I am talking about testing 'em, pushing 'em. Biggest hole in GSP's in my opinion is their stamina/heat tolerance and unless we push 'em to find and propogate the ones that can perform in tougher than ideal conditions, it will always be a hole. I know it's the biggest hurdle I face in my own dogs. One of the big benefits to these summer/fall trials is to see what we got and how they stack up in tough conditions - I think we should be holding the NGSPA Nat's up there personally. Sorry, no disrespect intended and kudos for showing up to participate if conditions are perfect, but why bother going if all you plan to do is pull your dogs if it's hot out?? Discredits the whole trial IMO if that's the pervasive attitude and dogs are only turned loose at certain temperatures, times of day, barometric pressures, moon phases, outgoing tides, or whatever other excuse can be conjured up to handicap the stakes.

Good luck to all!! Hope it goes well and they have some great prairie performances to name a champion or two! I've always enjoyed that country back there for sure!

**Just did some additional research - holy cow, I think we are talking about not turning loose the reigning AA NC GSP because it's hot out??? That would be a pretty dang sad state of affairs for the GSP world if that's the case - our best of the best can't compete beyond X temperature...??? Say it ain't so!! Please tell me if I'm the only one that see a "problem" with this (testing GSPs for stamina/heat/toughness/etc.) and I'll go away!!

[jasonw99]

hate to be the bearer of bad news. but u are all alone on this one. maybe you need to work on your conditioning program ? I don't think I have ever heard someone say shorthairs have low heat tolerance

if someone doesn't want to risk overheating their dog which they don't own I don't see a problem with it.

[ACooper]

German shorthairs have low heat tolerance. There done.

Interesting topic for sure maybe we should cut it out to its own thread, but in your opinion how hot is too hot to run?

[slistoe]

Now with that said he will not be running any of the dogs in his string if the weather is to hot.

Crl

Guess those Pointer boys in Sask. can rest easy - there will never be any Shorthairs coming up to steal the thunder in the National Am. Chicken Championship or any of the other stakes they run.

[DGFavor]

Guess those Pointer boys in Sask. can rest easy - there will never be any Shorthairs coming up to steal the thunder in the National Am. Chicken Championship or any of the other stakes they run.

No doubt! The hottest trials I've been to have been "pointer" trials and never once heard anyone say they weren't going to run their dog because it was too hot.

hate to be the bearer of bad news. but u are all alone on this one. maybe you need to work on your conditioning program ? I don't think I have ever heard someone say shorthairs have low heat tolerance

Maybe because that's all you talk to is shorthair folk!! I didn't say they have low heat tolerance - I said that heat tolerance and stamina are their biggest hole IMO. There are some fine, fine, exceptions of course...but to find those exceptions, they gotta be evaluated, not sidelined until the atomosphere agrees with 'em - make sense?? Can't just claim it's something they're capable of but not show up and do it. A couple of my proudest Ch. wins came in blistering, 90+ degree conditions, against the longtail crowd at that...and I've also had a couple outings where all of a sudden it looked like flames were gonna shoot out of my dogs ears and they were done, put a fork in 'em - forever embarrassing our stubbies against the longtails!!

if someone doesn't want to risk overheating their dog which they don't own I don't see a problem with it.

Absolutely!!! I agree....just don't expect me to come wanting to breed to it if those most familiar with it feel it's that fragile.

[hustonmc]

Biggest hole in GSP's in my opinion is their stamina/heat tolerance and unless we push 'em to find and propogate the ones that can perform in tougher than ideal conditions, it will always be a hole.

Or they could just keeping throwing Pointer in the wood pile

[slistoe]

Guess those Pointer boys in Sask. can rest easy - there will never be any Shorthairs coming up to steal the thunder in the National Am. Chicken Championship or any of the other stakes they run.

No doubt! The hottest trials I've been to have been "pointer" trials and never once heard anyone say they weren't going to run their dog because it was too hot.

I still remember going to ride/train with a Brittany pro in Montana. First day out the thermometer in my truck read 37 C (that would be about 98 F). When we broke for lunch and to trade off the morning dogs for a new bunch for the afternoon the fellow says "You know what I like best about this country? It is cool enough I can work dogs all day long!" My only thought was "I don't even want to imagine where you came from."

[Vision]

I believe a drawing will take place tonight for the stake that begins in the morning. My dog Abbie will be there with Dennis Brath. Now with that said he will not be running any of the dogs in his string if the weather is to hot.

Crl

Dennis just spent the last 3 weeks running dogs in 80* + heat at his summer camp in Sheridan Wyoming. The dogs should be fine.

[Brooks Carmichael]

I cannot believe what is being said about running in the heat. If is 90 to 100 degrees out and you want to run your dog so be it. But, I think more of my dogs then do that to them. I have been to many a pointer trial and see pointers collapse because of heat. They had to be wet them down with cold water and carried back on horse. I have seen the same with other pointing breeds including shorthairs. If you want to ruin a dog run him those temps for hour. I wouldn't think twice about pulling my dogs in that kind of heat. There is no dog out there that performs at his best when the temps approach 80 degrees. Some dogs even in the best condition sometimes do not perform as well at 70 degrees as they would say at 50 degrees. I could go on but you get the point.

[larue]

I myself tend to agree that we do not test our breed for stamina and heat enough.I have hunted sharptails in south dakota in the mid 90's and have had success,with some adjustments to where I ran.
We tend to produce what wins,and with the vast majority of stakes being 30 minutes we often breed for style over stamina.
That being said,some of the strongest dogs I have watched have been dan hokes stuff,the country out there can really separate dogs.
I guess that is why I continue to go there for my bloodlines.

[ElhewPointer]

I cannot believe what is being said about running in the heat. If is 90 to 100 degrees out and you want to run your dog so be it. But, I think more of my dogs then do that to them. I have been to many a pointer trial and see pointers collapse because of heat. They had to be wet them down with cold water and carried back on horse. I have seen the same with other pointing breeds including shorthairs. If you want to ruin a dog run him those temps for hour. I wouldn't think twice about pulling my dogs in that kind of heat. There is no dog out there that performs at his best when the temps approach 80 degrees. Some dogs even in the best condition sometimes do not perform as well at 70 degrees as they would say at 50 degrees. I could go on but you get the point.

Brooks,

How many pointer trials have you been to that run in that kind of heat? We're not talking weekend stuff. I've seen dogs do that kinda crap at 65 degrees at Branched Oak every weekend.

I had a dog that ran up at the Dak-Sas Ch. 2 yrs ago, it was about 95 degrees. Best hour on the ground i've ever seen him run. When judging and I see a dog go lay it down in the heat, I'll give him a leg up on the competition. Is this no worse than hunting in 10 below with snow on the ground? No. The purpose of field trials is pushing our animals to the limit. Why do you think THE National Championship is a 3 hr brace in cold, raining, snowing, freezing Feb. of Tenn. Push them to the limit. Separate the boys from the men.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Vagas, I'm not sure I understand the Grand Junction reference. We're talking about running in the heat, not the cold. I can hunt a dog all day long in the cold. That doesn't tell me anything about heat.

Doc, it sounds like you have pointer envy.

Doug

[DGFavor]

Doc, it sounds like you have pointer envy.

When it comes to performing in the heat heck ya' I do - it's the biggest clear cut performance difference on average in the breeds IMO, certainly their are exceptions. At this point in time, if one really wants to go compete on the prairies in summer/fall field trials, it would be hard to argue against the logic of using a pointer simply due to the hot conditions - and it doesn't appear to me that will change anytime soon if the pervasive attitude of the other breed owners is to only test their animals under their optimal performance conditions. Heck, I'm sure my dogs would excel in 20 degree weather, on an all downhill course, with little flags marking where all the birds are and fences lining each side of the course start to finish so they couldn't get out...but what would that prove??

the country out there can really separate dogs.

Only if you enter 'em!!

As far as dogs wobbling around, tipping over from heat at field trials, personally I've never seen it. I've seen more dogs get seriously gassed on a sudden 60 degree hot spring day than I have seen 'em getting "carted off the field" at prairie trials. I saw Tarkus once at Sunnyside in the spring when it suddenly got unseasonably warm, he got real hot early on and I thought he was done for the day - Heinz said "awe, he's allright", watered the bejeezus out of him and holy crap, that dog came to life with heart like you never seen, hammered the country - impressive. He knew what he had, what his dog was capable of, pushed him to his limit, not over it, and pretty sure he won the stake. Yah, I'm envious of that too!

Sooo, anyway, enough of this, hope they're having a good trial!!

[ElhewPointer]

Vagas, I'm not sure I understand the Grand Junction reference. We're talking about running in the heat, not the cold. I can hunt a dog all day long in the cold. That doesn't tell me anything about heat.

Doc, it sounds like you have pointer envy.

Doug

I see what you're saying. I was just stating the purpose of trialing. Pushing these dogs to the limit.

[Tejas Jr]

I was with Dennis Brath 2 years ago at the Sharptail....afternoon temps every day were in the 90-93 range. There was 63 dogs in the OSD and I don't recall a single pro pulling a dog before the brace began....they all loaded up themselves and their scouts with water and turned 'em loose. Don't forget these pros have just spent 3-5 weeks in summer camps conditioning these dogs. We have 2 dogs there with him now and depend on his good sense to know whether to run them or not....probably a moot point as it looks like the temps there this year is in the 70's.

As far as the current NFC AA, Abbie, a little heat might do her good....slow her down enough to where the judges might get a glimpse every now and then.

Wayne

[DGFavor]

Yaah, that's the spirit!! Probably another one of these internet misunderstandings on a boring day with nothing better to blab about!!

[Johnk]

Any news from the Sharptail?

[Tejas Jr]

If you've never been to Ekalaka, MT, let me describe it this way....you've heard the term "middle of nowhere" that's it ( they actually sell t-shirts there that say Ekalaka, Mt...the end of the world) . Cellphone service is nonexistent....occasionally a signal is picked up after you drive a couple of miles from camp which is down in a "hole". If I get any news, I will post it.

Wayne

[Elroy's Bandit]

Hopefully, someone will get some updates out from the trial. ..Looking forward to hearing what is happening out there.
On the heat thing, there is a big difference between hunting your dog on a 95 degree plus day and running him in a 1 hour championship. Doug, I respect your opinions, but this time I am not sure where you are coming from. Let me say this, if you want to run your dog on a 98 degree day with 112-115 degree heat index, so be it. The pro's have a responsibility to watch out for our (clients) dogs. I would much prefer to recieve a phone call saying that my dog was scratched erring on the side of caution, than the call to tell me my dog died from heat exhaustion. JMO, but the same trial will be run next year, so I for one am glad the person I am entrusting my dogs with is using a bit of common sense. Hot is one thing, but putting a dog down in conditions that could harm or cause death is ridiculous. FYI....the forcast for Ekalaka last week was looking like temps could be edging close to 100 degrees. Thanks Dennis for looking out for my dog.
Bill L.

[Brooks Carmichael]

Bill L. could not have said it any better

[Tejas Jr]

I checked my journal from 2 years ago and the temps at Ekalaka were progressively...85, 85, 87, 87, 89 and 90. The humidity was very low....probably 15-20% so it really didn't seem that hot. The course is a 3 hour continous course and except for the marginal first course had sufficient water for the dogs to seek out either man made or natural water resources to jump into to cool off. Keep in mind that no pro worth his salt is going to risk his professional reputation by risking running a dog to death. That would be a death knell for his "business". As far as heat goes I seem to remember that nationals at Eureka this year was run on some days in mid 80's temps. As far as testing our GSP's endurance, I thought that was what the 1 hour stakes were for....to separate the "men" from the "boys".....many a dog can win a weekend 30 minute trial but would have no chance in a 1 hour stake!

Wayne

[remmy]

Any news yet?

[Tejas Jr]

Surely, We'll get some results tomorrow...they had to finish today.....the chicken is supposed to start Monday.

Wayne

[Brooks Carmichael]

Here are the results of the sharptail

Hayley Killam won the ASD with Hank, Tom Davis runner-up with Tessa. OAA withheld. OSD champion was Blue with Eldon handling, runner-up was Bandit with Dennis Brath.

[Elroy's Bandit]

Derby was won by one of the Richardson's dog's , I believe "Babe"?? R/U was Reagon owned by John Lucey and handled by Dennis Brath
Bill L.

[remmy]

Congrats to all the winners.

[Tejas Jr]

Congrats to all the winners....especially Bill/Bandit and Reagon/John.

Wayne

[Elroy's Bandit]

Thank You Wayne & Remmy! It certainly is a exciting start to the fall season.
Big Conrats to Reagon & John......equally an awesome start for John's young pup who he has worked very hard with this summer.
Bill L.

[lvrgsp]

Big Congrats to Dennis, Bill, and John......looks like the prairies did em some good this summer.
Bill would you get Bandits ped page updated......Slacker......
John, nice derby placement in whay was I am sure a very good derby stake....
I believe Dennis won the derby with the Richardsons Biz dog......


Congrats to all

[Elroy's Bandit]

Thanks Chip....hey I am no slcker, and I would update my ped page, but it does not allow it and something has been screwed up with PefPed since last spring...I posted about it and apparently nobody wants to respond...ohh well.
Bill L.

[Fieldmaster]

Congrats to all the winners.

Big Thanks to John Lucey Owner / Dennis Brath Handler for there time, dedication and development on Regon ( Fieldmaster's Oregon Road Phosphorus ) An very exciting young bitch to watch for many years to come.

Robert

[Crestonegsp]

Congrats to the winners.

[DGFavor]

Congrats to the winners!! Cool deal!