Problems With Honoring

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:02 pm

I need help with my 19 mo. old female GSP. This is her second season of hunting and she has really turned it on with her bird finding and retrieving. My problem is with her honoring (backing). Early on she showed signs of natural honoring (backing). I would caution (whoa) her if she wanted to move. Not there completely, but it looked like she would pick it up with help. On a recent trip one of the other dogs she was on the ground with did not know what honoring meant and ran over her point a couple of times. Yesterday, I was working with her for an upcoming SH Hunt Test and she totally ignored a silhouette and just kept hunting. After that we switched to a live dog for the pointing dog. Again she ignored the dog and this time moved in to steal the point. I don’t know if her problem can be attributed to the recent hunting trip fiasco or because she has been finding a lot of the birds and thinks she is the one (jealousy) who is supposed to be pointing them. Anyway, I am looking for advice.

Coveyrise64

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:13 pm

Hey,

I'm not an expert, but when I had a similar situation, some folks here advised to let my dog retrieve out of the back.

That, in conjunction with using a remote launcher, seems to be slowly curing the problem.

Best regards,

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:39 pm

If you can I would go back to some check cord backing during the off season ...

I would also work on whoa in the back yard there are many different methods from whoa boards to whoa posts...pick a way you thinks fits you and your dog and work with it

Do you use the e collar....if so when you are going through the training with the CC always put the collar on but don't use it till you are sure she has her commands down with the CC this will help her from becoming collar wise as just because she has it on doesn't mean it has to be used if everything is going correctly

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:23 pm

Coveyrise,
Work the back and work the back and when she has it work it some more!
The info above is good but here is a bit more. If she is seeing the dog and creeping or roading right to the front of the dog I would use some releases and pop them. Work it as a stop to flush. When she startes to road in pop it and tap her with the collar and whoa! Timing is vital!

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:14 pm

Thanks everyone. Here is my game plan and feel free to change it if necessary. I have pigeons, remote launcher, and e-collar ready to go. First, it's back to work on the whoa and stop to flush in the yard. Then move to my training field and go over the same routine. Once I am satisfied with the basics I will introduce her to the silhouette again, but on the check cord. If she does it correctly I will let her retrieve. From there it is free of the checkchord, watch her movements closely and launch the bird if she fails to stop at sight of the pointing dog. I feel she has a ton of potential, a little on the dominate side, but prey drive is her middle name. Already a NAVHDA NA Prize I and JH with all 10's on her last placement. I really appreciate the advice and will keep you posted.

Thanks again.....

Coveyrise64

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:46 am

Be very, very careful using the E-collar on the neck during backing exercises. This is a very good way to get them blinking backs.

If the dog is steady through WSF, then you might try letting her retrieve one or two from the backing position. Mix it up so the dog doesn't know when it will get the retrieve or the pointing dog. The dog should retain style and intensity during it's backs.

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:00 pm

I don't believe whoa has anything to do with backing and I would not waste much time personally on it. On the other hand I think you are on the right track by placing the dog on the check cord and by bringging her to the dummy from the blind side. Further I would have a pigeon ready in the launcher to launch the moment you abserved your dog make eye contect with the dummy. I would not wait for her to back. Pop the louncher on her couple of times like that and you will see her come to sliding stop on a back. Now, dod not take the check cord off of her yet. Prove her by allowing the check cord to drag for few more times with your finger on the launchers remote button.

Best of luck.
Greg.

snip · Post by **snip** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:42 pm

I'm not sure why Whoa has nothing to do with backing. Whoa means to stop, they are suppossed to stop at first sight of the pointing dog. The best way to teach a dog to stop at first sight of the other dog is to tell them "Whoa". Or you can stop them with no command, either way it means the same. I always carry a bird to toss for the backing dog at the time the bird is shot for the pointing dog. Thats usually in the later stages when the dog is cut loose, after all the CC ground work is layed. I do not like using the E-collar in backing until much later stages, or on a seasoned dog that is sure of what he is being corrected for.

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:43 pm

The reason why I don't use the command whoa when teaching a dog to back or even around birds is because I feel backing should be a natural reaction to the dog,same as pointing. So I use the element of surprise along with a bit of deceit to get the job done. That technique has worked very well for me in the past and I though I'd pass it on.
I don't know anything about E collars, I've never used one for anything other than trash breaking ( deer / rabbit),so you got me there.

Best.
Greg