eCollars haters!

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:08 am

I'm just curious... to all (it seems like a lot of us) who utilize this tool do you ever have others who disagree with it and try to start a darn debate? i just recently purchased a used Sport G3 Basic and well lets just say a few people really got into how they feel this thing is inhumane, cruel, why would you use such a thing, means your dog doesn't know any commands, blah blah blah.

i choose to stay quiet and not start anything (this was in the office) i just didn't even want to try to educate these people but i'm just wondering when i go out in public or maybe to the dog park will i be crucified if she is wearing it!?!??!? geeeeez. i guess people fear what they do not know.

sorry for the rant...

3forme · Post by **3forme** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:16 am

Screw em! It is the society we live in, you will never change there minds. They are probably supporters of PETA

bird · Post by **bird** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:23 am

Don · Post by **Don** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:24 am

If we stay to the dog people we pretty much exclude the majority of the people. They have no idea what an e-collar is. Once they find out, they hear electric and shock and many get turned off. Might be well to understand that all their dogs are usually disobedient also. Most of those people don't bother me. In fact if their willing to listen, I'm willing to give them a lesson it the collar.

We get on these sites and we're safe but, we're singing to the choir! While it happens a lot, it's hard to disagree with someone that agrees with you!

Best thing I think to do is to never bring up the collar around them and if it comes up, don't avoid it but don't let it escalate to a verbal war either. Agreeing to disagree is a good idea. Of course if that doesn't work and they are just a trouble making jerk, punch their lights out!

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:37 am

There are some thick and stubborn folks out there. When all else fails, I really like Dons final solution.

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:38 am

My suggestion:

Take the collar off of the dog and put it on the arm of the person who says it is cruel. Do a low level stimulation on their arm with the collar. They will realize that it is not "shocking" the dog and it is more like a nusance tickle! (just be sure that you don't jolt them with the highest level! Although there are some people who deserve it!)

I have done this to several people who badmouthed e-collars and they realized that the collar is not bad.

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:39 am

i really wanted to educate these people but boy they didn't want to hear it. i felt my blood boil and knew "hey its not worth it". i've been reading, studying, just watched an eCollar DVD training guide (more to come!) and I wanted to explain to these few that its probably the most humane thing vs a choke chain/prong collar.

They say, "Why do you need to have the collar on all the time? That just means you know your dog is not proofed and trained as you thought"

ugh, i don't even want to go on. My thought is let me keep to myself. If I'm out in public with my dog and someone asks me about the collar then fine, hopefully they will be open to listening rather than jumping down my throat and not letting me speak and shaking their heads in pity for my dog!? ugh.

The funniest thing is someone that owns an invisible fence doesn't agree with the ecollar. ummmmmmmmmmmmm.

High Voltage · Post by **High Voltage** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:46 am

I have had the e-collar on my dog when I took her to the vet. I was waiting for someone to say something but no one did. FYI the only reason she had it on was because I was having shoulder problems (torn rotator cuff) and couldn't handle her tugging. She was a pup at the time and not trained to heel yet.
I worked with a guy who tried to give me a hard time about using an e-collar and how cruel it was. I reminded him HE is the one who dumped a wolf-dog in the country because they couldn't handle it.

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:26 am

I've not heard complaints about my use of the e-collar very often. When I do hear inquiries which seem like they might escalate, I simply tell the person that I wouldn't put my dog through anything I haven't experienced myself. Then I explain that I put my e-collar on my leg to test the levels before it ever got around my dog's neck.

When I tell them that I don't even get a fraction of the way up the stimulation level on the dog as I did on myself first, the people usually have nothing more to complain about. Once I have them baffled and tongue tied, I explain how, when used properly, the e-collar is much more effective and humane than jerking on a leash or checkcord all the time. I explain how precise timing makes a huge difference on the dog's learning curve, avoiding unnecessary confusion, and explain how when used properly, it actually hardly gets used at all.

That usually does the trick.

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:13 am

i think the majority of people that see the collar will just automatically assume its for an invisible/electric fence. but when you pull out the "walkie talkie" then people start to get curious about it and some dog owners/pet owners know right away "oh boy, its a SHOCK collar!"

but that is a good explanation. I figure the majority of people would probably just keep to themselves. Its just that when I want to go to the dog park those people there are elitist/pompous i just have a feeling they will want to 'debate' the issue. there is a nice stream there where my dog loves to go swimming and retreiving and since she is off leash i'd like to keep that collar on her.

bird · Post by **bird** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:36 am

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:37 pm

Well i go to the dog park just to keep my dog socialized and she seems to enjoy it a lot as well. there is also a stream/pond there that she loves to swim in. granted i can find (probably will) another place to have fun with her. i also take her to the open fields and she loves it there and there are more hunters that go there so...

its a whole different crowd of people that go to dog parks you are correct. aw well.

parshal · Post by **parshal** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:43 pm

I go to dog parks for exercise during the week and to let my dogs chase ducks around the pond. People always ask what the dogs have around their necks. I hit the locate button (dogtra 2002 t&b) and tell them it's so I can find my dogs.

I did hear one person say to their friend as I walked past "I would never shock my dog." I didn't say anything however I'm not afraid to talk about them. Most people just don't know anything about them. They hear the term 'shock collar' and make assumptions. Take the time to educate them. We have to educate people about them or we'll be seeing Congress attempting to outlaw them as is being attempted in Britain.

stumpy · Post by **stumpy** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:50 pm

I used to take my GSP to the dog park weekly, but it got to the point to where he was learning bad habbits. He always got the dogs running and chasing him (there was only one doberman that could keep up, all the other dogs were way out of shape). People would get upset that he would run so fast and get other dogs trying to chase. They liked it better when thier dogs stood around and looked at each other, just like they were doing. One day Roscoe had four or five dogs chasing him. They were all behind trying to keep up. One of them ran into a tree and hurt his front shoulder. All of the people were blamming me becouse he was chasing Roscoe, even though he ran into the tree on his own. I decided that the dog park was not the place for us, even for the socialization!

Don · Post by **Don** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:55 pm

One of the nice things about where I live is that I've never seen a dog park! I heard about them though.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:14 pm

There are a lot of idiots at dog parks. It amazes me how little control some people have over their dogs, and how clueless they are in avoiding bad situations. Some people I've seen simply have bad dogs - mutts or pits typically that just go around looking to cause issues. Geez - if your dog can't play well with others - DON'T BRING IT TO A DOG PARK.

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:22 pm

no more dog park, you are right. it was mainly to get her around other dogs and to play. she is now 1yr old and well. i think she has had enough. but it is true, about 95% of the dogs there are out of control and even some aggressive which scares me! and the people, ugh the people. arrogant aholes with the holier than thou attitude. i met one hunter there who had two french britts. he was a nice guy and he actually told me there are good people there. although he is an ol school hunter that doesn't use ecollars at least he doesn't shun them like most folks there.

but i hate the peanut gallery comments.

nj gsp · Post by **nj gsp** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:01 pm

I was very hesitant to get an e-collar. But, I finally decided to get one after doing a little research. I'm not sure where I read it, but the most valuable thing I learned before buying a collar is this: if the dog doesn't know and listen to a command from 6 feet away, the dog isn't going to listen at 300 feet either."

What this means for me is that the collar should be used to reinforce commands I KNOW the dog knows.

It lets your dog know that it doesn't matter how far away from you they are, they still have to listen to you. A collar is only cruel in the hands of someone who is cruel by nature, or doesn't know how to use one.

Now having used one for a while, I feel that it is a very valuable training tool, although I do train without it from time to time.

Post by **Ayres** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:52 pm

I lived in an apartment complex that had a dog park. Most of the time I was the only one there. It had 8' high fences, so it served it's purpose as a nice off-leash running area for us to play around.

Although, I also had about a 5 - 10 acre "Prairie Grass Restoration" area right next to my apartment too, with walking trails mowed through it. It was much more fun to take an evening walk out that way off leash than it was to go to the park. Hardly ever ran across anyone in there either, though I know I wasn't the only person using it for off-leash running. Most people just walked at different times.

You're always going to have your fits with overcrowded areas.

Don · Post by **Don** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:01 pm

Are these dog parks just large fenced in areas where everybody can take their dogs and turn them loose? What do you do about the dogs that don't want to play nice? Somebody was saying something about a dog park that had a pond. In the pond lived a rather large alligator! These places don't sound like anything I'd want to visit. I'm guessing that these are in city's where there's not much of anywhere to excerise dogs. Are you allowed to take dogs to city parks?

stumpy · Post by **stumpy** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:48 pm

I live in Nashville, Tn and most of our parks allow pets, but they have to be on a leash. We have a couple of dog parks that are just large fenced in areas. Most people just let thier dogs off lead and run. I would always try to go in the early mornings (sunrise) on Saturday or Sunday to avoid the crowds. If we got there and I saw more than about 10 dogs, we would leave. It was a good way to let my GSP get socialized with other dogs. I also had not joined NAVHDA yet and did not really have enough information on areas where I could take Roscoe. We started to run into some problems when Roscoe was about 16 months old. He was learning bad habits, etc. I also joined NAVHDA around that time. Since I have found a really nice WMA that is open during the week for training and they have field trials on the weeekends. It is a much better place to go! Although I have to drive about 35-40 minutes to get over there, the dog park is about 10 minutes from the house.

bird · Post by **bird** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:29 pm

gr_elliott · Post by **gr_elliott** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:35 am

There are a good amount of dog parks in Austin, the one in my area being the best. It is pretty big, I am guessing 20-50acres total. There is a good sized creek that runs through it and many trails that lead through wooded areas that are perfect for conditioning dogs, it can get very steep in places. It can get crowded sometimes but there is so much room with different stuff to do it’s not that big of a deal.

My wife and I use to love taking the dog down there, he just ran and played chase and swam the whole time. Then one day another lady started bringing her “baby” to the park and he was a bit aggressive and made the other dogs a bit uneasy. Next thing I know dogs that had not shown any aggression at all were starting to be a pain in my neck.

I don’t think rowdy has any idea how to be mean so when dogs started jumping and teaming up on him he had no idea what was going on and just thought it was just a game. That was last summer, I have not been down there since, I cant handle someone that cannot keep a dog under control or know when its causing problems. Up until that point he was a pretty cool place to take a dog to burn some steam. Now we go to the elementary school down the street and have just as much fun playing fetch.

Seems to me that dog parks might be more for the owners then the dogs, my certainly does not care where we play.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:51 am

Don wrote:Are these dog parks just large fenced in areas where everybody can take their dogs and turn them loose?

In a nutshell, yes.

What do you do about the dogs that don't want to play nice?

You leave. I have tried to keep my dogs separated from the not-so-nice ones, or tell their owners to control their dogs. I have more success moving my dog away than I do convincing the other owner that their dog needs controlling. Please reference my earlier post about many people at dog parks being idiots.

I don't take my dogs to a dog park for socialization. I think it's a horrible place for that purpose - too many idiots. I take them for exercise. There is a dog beach on Tampa Bay not 2 miles from my house. I can go there, let 'em loose and they'll just run and swim themselves ragged, then I pack them up and take them home. I'm happiest when the place is deserted. If there are other dogs, I'll usually give it a shot depending on the type of dog and how many are present. MOST of the time, there aren't more than 4 other dogs, and they're usually well-behaved, so all is well.
For some reason, not many people know of this dog beach, so it's not nearly as busy as some other dog parks - which I don't mind at all!

EWSIV · Post by **EWSIV** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:24 am

Put a bandana around the dog's collar. That way you don't have to deal with AR wacko's in the dog park as much.

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:48 am

EWSIV wrote:Put a bandana around the dog's collar. That way you don't have to deal with AR wacko's in the dog park as much.

i was just gonna say this. because last night i did take my dog back there (her bday) and I had her collar on (not in use yet) and i put a bandana over it. I felt stupid but i wanted my dog to have some fun but there were over 30 dogs last night. and they teamed up on my dog and it got a little too much so i got my dog out of there yet the other owners are all laughing about it. All these people do is gossip. I can say that was my last time going.

I was talking to this woman there who was a bit off. She says she has Invisible Fence installed on her property. Then since the bandana ripped off my dog in the scuffle she saw the collar. I don't know if TriTronics collars look different than most other brands or what but she kept asking, "Is that a bark collar? Is that for an electric fence. Is that one of those shock collars where you shock the dog for being bad?" ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

but its funny, she says she'd never be able to shock her poor Golden (who by the way was out of control jumping on everyone). So I ask her, "Don't you have I.F. installed on your prop?" She says, "Oh yes but he will never get shocked because he knows not to go beyond the line. That is not the same as your shock collar"

Good bye... :roll:

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:56 am

She says, "Oh yes but he will never get shocked because he knows not to go beyond the line. That is not the same as your shock collar"

Ummmmmm... how did he learn not to go beyond that line? :roll: :roll:

She's right, though; the 2 collars aren't the same. Ever felt a jolt from an invisible fence? It ain't no picnic!!!

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:42 am

Shadow, I'll bet she was educated in America!

stumpy · Post by **stumpy** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:55 pm

phermes1 wrote:
Don wrote:Are these dog parks just large fenced in areas where everybody can take their dogs and turn them loose?
In a nutshell, yes.

What do you do about the dogs that don't want to play nice?
You leave. I have tried to keep my dogs separated from the not-so-nice ones, or tell their owners to control their dogs. I have more success moving my dog away than I do convincing the other owner that their dog needs controlling. Please reference my earlier post about many people at dog parks being idiots.

I don't take my dogs to a dog park for socialization. I think it's a horrible place for that purpose - too many idiots. I take them for exercise. There is a dog beach on Tampa Bay not 2 miles from my house. I can go there, let 'em loose and they'll just run and swim themselves ragged, then I pack them up and take them home. I'm happiest when the place is deserted. If there are other dogs, I'll usually give it a shot depending on the type of dog and how many are present. MOST of the time, there aren't more than 4 other dogs, and they're usually well-behaved, so all is well.
For some reason, not many people know of this dog beach, so it's not nearly as busy as some other dog parks - which I don't mind at all!

If you don't mind could you PM me about that beach in Tampa. I will be there at my In-laws next week and would love to go. They live in the Rocky-point area.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:58 pm

stumpy wrote: If you don't mind could you PM me about that beach in Tampa. I will be there at my In-laws next week and would love to go. They live in the Rocky-point area.

Huh? What dog beach? Where? There are no dog beaches in Tampa. Forget I said anything.

PM sent.

Billy Ray · Post by **Billy Ray** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:10 pm

I don't understand why anybody would put up with someone talking to them like has been described here. I don't get into anyones business, and don't expect some flatlander to stick their nose in mine. It's a good way to lose a few teeth.

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:29 pm

i agree, anyone who starts with me because my dog wears an ecollar has to just mind their own. its obnoxious and rude. I know the everyday pet owner doesn't like the idea of giving their dog a stim (shock) and the everyday pet owner does not know or understand the concepts of ecollar training (and its not a cake walk using one!) so they just have this pompous arrogant attitude "i trained my dog with positive reinforcement" blah blah blah. mind yer own biz!

but when that woman said "I would never shock my dog" and she has a darn I.F. i tried my hardest not to laugh in her face. I don't like being rude and i do not like to start trouble or arguments so...

i think i'll stick to the fields where hunters and pet owners alike go. i always liked that environment better.

stumpy · Post by **stumpy** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:04 pm

Introducing the e-collar to Roscoe has been the most nerve racking thing that I have done with him. He has an unmatchable drive and desire to be out front and hunting. I have been so afraid that I would screw that up! Most "dog park" people think we just put the collar on and shock away! They really don't understand the methods, behavior, or how effective the training can be when do right. Hunters sometimes get a bad rap. I don't know how many people I have heard on the radio the past few weeks talking about the Vick dog fighting vs. hunting dogs. So many people think that if a hunter gets a dog that he/she does not like, they just shoot it. I heard several people say that, and I live in Tennesse where hunting is as much a way of life as football!!!!!!

bird · Post by **bird** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:05 pm

TheShadow · Post by **TheShadow** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:31 am

when i got my pup a co-worker suggested i take her to Petco for training. well i knew better but i still went there to "spy" and see how they did puppy training. and as i watched behind the pet foods I just told myself, "NO WAY, waste of money and waste of time." it was more of a social event and they also did the clicker training. Granted I do feel clicker training works but I do not think its the most practical meathod (for me at least) as the dog gets older. I seldom go to Petco/Petsmart for anything. I go to the feed store for everything.

One night I wanted to buy some KONG stuffing so I stopped by the local Petsmart. I got up to the door and it would not open. What gives? Finally a girl came and opened the door. They had a wild yellow lab on the loose in the store and they had to 'lock down' so that it wouldn't run out the store and get hit by a car! this was during training. it was pretty funny, what's the first thing about training a dog to come? chase after it screaming "Buddy stop! Buddy get over here now! Buddy come come come!" this was the young trainer. I didn't even see the owner... :roll:

last night while walking my dog in my rural downtown area i saw a woman with some type of shepard and she was doing clicker training with her dog. yeah it was working and the dog was very focused but when she saw me with my dog with the collar (i'm not using it) and i was training her to focus as well she just had to get closer to me and closer and kinda like showing off. yeah my dog got all excited as her dog came closer but i still had control over her but it was the fact this lady just kept on "mirroring" my movements. I thought of this thread and I wanted to say something but... people

dogirl · Post by **dogirl** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 am

Don wrote:Are these dog parks just large fenced in areas where everybody can take their dogs and turn them loose? What do you do about the dogs that don't want to play nice? Somebody was saying something about a dog park that had a pond. In the pond lived a rather large alligator! These places don't sound like anything I'd want to visit. I'm guessing that these are in city's where there's not much of anywhere to excerise dogs. Are you allowed to take dogs to city parks?

Don,

Almost every fresh body of water here in Florida has a gator in it. I have had friends that have found them in thier pool during mating season when they are on the prowl.

We have dog parks here but I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut around some of the idiots. I do go to parks with ponds, etc., but they are not dog parks. You just have to be careful and scope out the scenery before you let your dog in the water.

I have had to abandon favorite spots because of gators, but I have called the state trapper to relocate at times. I have a few spots right now that I have not seen a gator at yet. Lets hope it stays that way.

dogirl

dogirl · Post by **dogirl** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:24 am

All this talk about e-collars and dog parks...

I am not so sure I would take my dog to the dog park with an e-collar if he/she was going to play with other dogs.

I manage a dog daycare/grooming shop. We generally have 20-25 dogs together at any given time. They all have to be "naked". Getting paws, teeth, etc. stuck in each others collars is too much of a liability.

We had a fiasco here at a local dog park wear an owner allowed his dog to run and play with the choke collar on. Another dog got his teeth caught in the chain, panicked, and choked the other dog to death before they could be separated.

I have seen dogs chew on the collars of other dogs as well.

Just my 2 cents.

ESetterLove · Post by **ESetterLove** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:10 am

vzkennels wrote:I think most of the e-collar haters are people that own pets & treat them more like human babies & people then dogs.Alot of them don't even believe in confining them in kennels,crates,or tie outs.Their pets or babies have very little training.You won't find very many bird dog owners that are e-collar haters.

Just had to register to respond to this one! No time to scroll down to see if anyone else has said the same.

That said,.........I am one that considers my "pets as my Babies" (when they are in the Home) To be honest and Blunt! This is the only way to one can developed a Companion Dog that Respects you.

((You all think I am going in a certain direction don't you!))

But first I would like you to explain the term "TIE OUT"

I will just go with this and assume you tie your Dog out when you are too busy to take he/she out yourself?? How often Do You run with your "Baby or Dog" in the Off season?

If you do not have 2hrs (minimum) a day to spend with your devoted hunting partner to encourage He/She to Poo/Pee and just romp around in the yard or field, and.. at least just as much time "practice hunting" per week... Then I would suggest you hunt with a rent-a-Dog or other party.. (yours might not be Worthy of your time)

Now that I have thrown you off a bit! Getting off of my Soapbox about certain subjective discrimination's.......... I am a Total E-collar Supporter!!! The following reasons are why.

My Dog is my baby... and I would not tolerate anything else.. Why you ask? because I would not be able to trust him to be around family, friends and strangers if he was not conditioned to be docile. (No e-collar around such situations) Of course one should use the Choke and leash until one knows the dog is comfortable.

My "baby" has not only been professionally trained but has been bred from a very strong line as well.. Not that that means much to Bird Dog with any type of desire... Anyone that has ever been "owned" by a Bird Dog knows the following.... A Bird Dog will love and respect you until...... "my nose, my nose, I smell something... I must find it! !! Hurry! Hurry! there it goes! you cant see it but I Think I do! Oh! there it is! "A Deer, Pheasant or the neighbor from down the block.."

A Dog that would normally respond to "here" or the "e-collar beep" has now caught scent or sight of a goodie.. BEEP? Beep Beep Beep? (not responding is He/She?) 1?---4?---5??? 8 in the single stimulation?... Nothing..... Why? because the Dog (your Baby) is doing what it was designed to do.. They are not ignoring the "beeps or stimulation" because they are not well trained or "a spoiled baby" but because they just are so focused on the JOB! that they are unaware of the stimulation...

So... There you are... a big dilemma... should I crank it and hit the Big one??? Of course! But it should be for the right reason.... You want the season to end with your Dog back at home, curled up at your feet. Who cares if your Dog did less than you expected this year and failed to impress the buddies... "If you do not use the e-collar... your Dog will not be home to warm your feet and shove the wife out of the way... " "If you FAIL TO USE the e-collar.... your wife will NOT be the one to Warm you Stupid Feet When her BABY fails to return from the Big Hunt"

You guys starting to get it??? If not, here you go! I am the non-hunter female in a family of sport enthusiasts. I am Very supportive of the sport. Even though I might be considered a "tree hugger" conservationist... It's Nature and Life BABY. I am the non-hunter, tree hugger, person that treats my "many diverse family of "Pets" to RESPECT! and use the e-collar as it should... (Hubby and Boy's most importantly) That said, Just because I Love my Bird Dog, treat him as a member of the family... does not mean that I am Anti Shock Collar.... Use it or Lose it! Meaning: Lose the Dog, Lose the Love.. Some you will Get it ... The ones that don't... You will know why...

I SUPPORT THE USE OF A SHOCK OR "E-COLLAR"

(Edited by Moderator to clean up the extra spacing)

bird · Post by **bird** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:14 am

tasi devil · Post by **tasi devil** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:27 am

ESetterLove,i needed an e-collar to focus on that post ,take your point and i 'got it' but geez i was losin it halfway

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:33 pm

ESetterLove,

Welcome to the board. I know where you are coming from. Glad you came out of the lurk...now show us some pictures of your dogs. We need more setter people.

Charles

highcotton · Post by **highcotton** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:39 pm

Vizsla Vince · Post by **Vizsla Vince** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:08 am

An acqaintance of mine confronted me on this issue when he found out I use an e-collar. It started "that's so mean! Why don't you put that thing on yourself!?" To which I replied "I have!"
These are folks who have no children, & 3 Doberman Pinscers (sp?) who get their own birthday parties every year. Their youngest dog, a male, was a rescued dog with behavior issues. Some of the horror stories he's told me would have had me @ the vet putting the animal down, but then, I have human children to protect.
Just recently, this guy pulled me aside @ a church picnic to pick my brain about e-collars & how they work. I guess he'd finally had enough of his dog's shenannigans, & did some homework on the subject.
Usually, when people feel the need to tell me how cruel a "shock" collar is, I tell them that "cruel" is letting my dog run out of control & get smeared by a car in the street because he won't come when I call him.

ESetterLove · Post by **ESetterLove** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:49 am

highcotton wrote:ESetterLove,

Welcome to the board. I know where you are coming from. Glad you came out of the lurk...now show us some pictures of your dogs. We need more setter people.

Charles

I only have 1 setter (for now)
Would Love to show off my "baby"

As I have provided the link to this site to the "man hunters of the home"

Who has my back when they recognise themselves and are offended?

Thank you to those that understood what I meant..

Can anyone convince the "man hunters" in my home
to allow me to pick out my own Setter?

I desired an English "field" Setter because of my wish to pursue an interest in Falconry..

They just took over my dog...

Why has this VZ kennal person not provided me with an answer?
Too many Dogs?

ESetterLove · Post by **ESetterLove** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:52 am

highcotton wrote:ESetterLove,

Welcome to the board. I know where you are coming from. Glad you came out of the lurk...now show us some pictures of your dogs. We need more setter people.

Charles

BTY
Who could not Love the Freckly Face of a setter?

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:15 am

I think she is refering to this post.

I think most of the e-collar haters are people that own pets & treat them more like human babies & people then dogs.Alot of them don't even believe in confining them in kennels,crates,or tie outs.Their pets or babies have very little training.You won't find very many bird dog owners that are e-collar haters

VZ, I agree with you but I too missed the connection to ES Love's post. The way I am reading this is that she feels you said anyone that considers their pets to be like children are bad but I read it as saying that many of the people who do think that way fail to teach or control their dogs in any manner. If you go to some shows and are around the women, primarily, that are showing their little dogs, you will find that your post fits them to a T.

But none of this is condemning house pets or treating your dogs well. This exact same statement could be said about many parents today and the way they raise their kids. Dogs and kids do need boundries and dicipline if they are going to learn to behave in an acceptable manner.

Ezzy

flgunner · Post by **flgunner** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:50 pm

I agree with all; you have to take the time and use teaching moments when you can. On the other hand I also realize there are people that will never get it due to there mentality, so good luck!

We all ahve to take opprotunities to educate the general public.

ESetterLove · Post by **ESetterLove** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:53 am

What a complete misunderstanding!

I was attempting to get (provoke) "VZKENNELS" to further explain the need to
"tie out"

What the heck is the Dog Whisperer???

Sorry if I have been a bit too obtuse.

At Home..
My Setter (or any other Bird Dog)
is my companion, my protector and my baby.

In the Field...
My Dog is steady and strong.
My Dog knows what he/she should do... and does it well.
My Dog will listen to me..
(e-collar first.... experience with time)
My Dog loves and respects me more than the wife ( Hunting season)

My Dog becomes a Big Baby in the Off Season..
(and any man that understands this will understand)

At Home...in the "Off season"

My Dog is no longer my own.
My Dog will Eat when the wife feed's he/she.
My Dog will will Love the Wife/significant other, more than me.
My Dog will be found on the couch or on my bed most days.
(I will see that this is not a Bad Thing)

Still have no clue where I am going with this do you???

Want More??

bird · Post by **bird** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:44 pm

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:17 pm

Here's how it is.

When you have someone come up to you and start to TELL you that what you doing in wrong or inhumane. Calmly ask them if they have a dog. And to what level or extent they have trained it to. Ask them if there toy poodle that pees in the house has ever pointed a wild bird at 200 yards? Or if there old mutt that never gets up has ever ran in a competitive contest against other dogs. Then see if they still have the gall to tell you what you shouldn't do.

Lastly, about the dog park situation. I had a few real problems which ended in a trip to the vet for my dog and his dog. After going to a few people including the police and they refused to help things got ridiculous. And after having my character bashed my immaturity poked its head out and we had a little bit of a loud discussion. Nice dog parks are a good asset. Just go when noone's there. Set up times for socialization with well rounded people and you will be better off.

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