"Styling up" the tail with training?

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:20 pm

Steven,

That is a classic young Viz point! He holds his tail and head well! Now the rest is up to you........you could make it better or worse.

Sounds like a good start for another thread here!

Phil
REO

Ok, here it is! How do I make it better and avoid making it worse?

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:01 pm

Hands on....
What I mean by that you need to stroke that tail up and lift that chin. When done many times you will actually see the dog hit a bird and be a little out of wack and move to the praised possition. This can be done on a table. Bench Barrel, not long ago I read about doing it on a rail?
Most dogs at first are a little uneasy with human contact of this sort but with time they exept it.
If the dog is high at both ends don't mess with sucsess!

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:43 am

Steven,

I use my retrieve training table for this too. It's about thigh high, 20 feet long and 2 feet wide.

I start by getting the dog used to being out of his element (off the ground) by stroking every part of the body. SLowly and in small circles. IT's called "sacking out" in the Equine world. You could watch the animal calm down quickly.I do this all while he is in whoa training. IT takes a while.

WHen I have him standing still during his whoa training, I softly push down on his withers with the palm of my hand, then style him up by slowly running my hands upwards. ONe hand does the fromt...from chest to chin while the other goes from genitals to tip of the tail. THen I push on the withers again all while praising.

What this does........Not only will the dog Style up and set his head and tail....he will also puff his chest up preparing to be pushed on! It looks great a trial or test. THis shows a judge (like me) who actually watches, how or what the dog thinks of the trainer and his methods. Many cower or slink down. No way will a dog like that win or pass under me!

My whoa training methods are easy on the dog too. I use a whoa post similar to Rick Smiths method. The dog basically teaches himself. you are not the bad guy. When it comes time to break the dog I ujse a very simalar method to whoa breaking as well.

That is the next step though.

Phil
REO

Post by **grant** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:34 pm

QCBirddogs wrote:Many cower or slink down.

It's sad to see how many dogs do this...

At the field trials I went to, you could see some of the dogs cower when the owner just walks by...

Post by **Ayres** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:51 pm

Justus will still occasionally tuck his tail and run up next to me when he gets spooked.. but he's only 7 months and I figure he's got a long way to go still with becoming more bold. But, that's tucking and coming to me for safety, not tucking and cowering or running away out of fear, so I guess it's not the same thing at all.

When a dog can't trust its owner.. it's a sad thing indeed.

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:16 am

Steven,

You are correct, he is a young'un...there are plenty of things that will give him a spook! It's easy to make a blinker at this stage. I cant tell you how many blinkers I saw due to launchers or E collars.

Grant,

Too many people want to push the dogs way to fast. Especially in a trial situation, everyone wants to win..............NOW!

Phil
REO

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:45 pm

The thing that seems to spook Justus the most is when he hears construction noises (hammers, power saws, etc.) from a distance, but can't place what the heck it is. Now he's in a stage where he finds that stuff most interesting, but still with great caution. The ears always perk up and you can just see the wheels turning in that little head of his.

I've only worked the e-collar on him for the 'here' command thus far, and he doesn't show any adverse signs. I use setting 2 out of 8, which is just barely enough to get a response. As for the launcher.. he's not phased by that at all when there's a bird that flushed.

I'm thinking I'll begin woah training this spring, when he's closer to a year old (April) and able to handle it. That is strenuous training not fit for a youngin', right? When that part of training comes around, I'll try the push method to get him to push his chest out in a bold fashion.

Colleen · Post by **Colleen** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:06 pm

I tried QC's advice outside today with Fletcher. He found a neighbor's cat and was pointing it, I whoa'd him, walked up and tried to position his head and tail...well, I guess he's had those anal sacs emptied one too many times, my hand in that region brought his tail tight against his body in no time!!! Hahaha. He usually points with his head and tail straight out, all four firmly planted, which doesn't bother me at all. If he lifts a paw at all, he usually does it pretty lazily and then remembers it's easier to stand on 4 legs than on 3. Smart dog. What he lacks in style he makes up for in intensity. Just thought I'd give it a whirl :roll:

My girl, on the other hand, is gonna have a mighty pretty point. Tucks up a front leg nice and tight, head high and tail high. She's scent-pointing on the fly already too--we went for a walk yesterday and there was a blue jay on the inside of a bush. Running by, she caught a whiff and locked up hard on the bird. Held it for a few seconds before she busted in and he flew away. She never even saw the bird though.

Decoy · Post by **Decoy** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:50 pm

Colleen,
We had the same situation: our GSP had a pretty high tail point but our DK did not hold his tail high. Sudie kept stroking it up while he was on whoa and now he points with a pretty 12:00 tail. It is almost like his tail muscle needed stretching, and you cant stretch a muscle with one session. Keep at it and he will hold his tail high in a few weeks.

QCBirddogs · Post by **QCBirddogs** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:07 pm

aaaaa....Colleen you didnt follow my advice at all.......

I always start my dogs on a table.....not having anyhting to do with game. You have to get the dogs used to what you are goign to do to them. Especially when they are concentrating on game.

I also never give a command till they know what it means.

Phil
REO

Colleen · Post by **Colleen** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:00 pm

Well, for utter lack of a training table and anywhere to put it....

Honestly, I was just kinda doing it for the heck of it. I don't care all that much that Fletch has a 9 o'clock tail.

By the way, what do you think my neighbor would say if I referred to her cat as "game?"

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:18 pm

[quote="Colleen"]Well, for utter lack of a training table and anywhere to put it....

If you have a dog porter it works well also. The table for purposes regarding style in my opinion is for our use... It brings the dog up to our level and makes it easier for us to work with the dog. Many times I have used the tailgate of a truck. Heck it was not long ago Grant did it in the living room on the coffee table. Works for me!

Does one find that a dog is more stylish if it cocks a leg up? Are people trying to train this....?

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:34 pm

Collen all you need for a training table is a 2'by8' plywood on 2 sawhorses, that doesn't take up much space. I have one on the cover patio, so when it rains I can still do some training. For a fat old man like me it's easier because I don't have to bend over all the time.