Gamebird Transition

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Elhewramblinman
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Gamebird Transition

Post by Elhewramblinman » Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:43 pm

Well one of my youngsters is really coming along nicely. He is really steady on pigeons, STF, backing and stands his birds really looks good. I have been mixing up the training and using multiple birds to try and make the dog believe more than one bird is always around. He is starting to put it all together.

When I move him to quail that is a different story! I am assuming the sound, low flight trajectory and actually being able to see where it lands changes the game. He gets so amped up he will flag and chase.

Common sense says I would need to do yard/field work with quail to make him put it together that same rules apply on quail as pigeons. Looking for so professional opinions.


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mask
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by mask » Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:06 pm

First of all pen raised quail are not always the best training birds. Second, pen raised quail are usually better if the dog is still on a check cord. Third, if you are using pen raised quail you might quit and go right to wild birds. If the dog is standing pigeons and behaving the way you want he will probably transition to wild birds. Forth, pen raised quail are not always the best training birds. I hope this helps and have fun with your dog.

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Sharon
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:27 pm

I am no professional , but it has been my experience that every bird is different to a dog. A dog might be great on quail or woodcock, but then use that dog on pheasant and it's a whole different story. Learned this the hard way in trials.
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CDN_Cocker
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by CDN_Cocker » Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:11 pm

Elhewramblinman wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:43 pm

Common sense says I would need to do yard/field work with quail to make him put it together that same rules apply on quail as pigeons.
I'd say the opposite. Maybe wild quail but not planted ones. You need strong flyers. If he's good on pigeons, get him running on wild birds.
Cass
"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr

Elhewramblinman
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by Elhewramblinman » Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:49 pm

Sharon wrote:I am no professional , but it has been my experience that every bird is different to a dog. A dog might be great on quail or woodcock, but then use that dog on pheasant and it's a whole different story. Learned this the hard way in trials.
Agreed.


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Elhewramblinman
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by Elhewramblinman » Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:45 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:
Elhewramblinman wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:43 pm

Common sense says I would need to do yard/field work with quail to make him put it together that same rules apply on quail as pigeons.
I'd say the opposite. Maybe wild quail but not planted ones. You need strong flyers. If he's good on pigeons, get him running on wild birds.
Yeah….. except we have very few wild birds here. 2,000 acres hunted in my home state this season with no birds. Not much productive work gonna get done that way.


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Elhewramblinman
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by Elhewramblinman » Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:48 pm

mask wrote:First of all pen raised quail are not always the best training birds. Second, pen raised quail are usually better if the dog is still on a check cord. Third, if you are using pen raised quail you might quit and go right to wild birds. If the dog is standing pigeons and behaving the way you want he will probably transition to wild birds. Forth, pen raised quail are not always the best training birds. I hope this helps and have fun with your dog.
He very much is still being worked on a check cord. Again, we have very few wild birds if any, so we invested in a 50x50 flight pen and 1,000 quail. We don’t plant them we fly them out. The wild birds he did find this year, the results were in my original post. Flagging chasing ect. I feel like doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is insanity.


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cjhills
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by cjhills » Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:57 pm

If you have him solid on pigeons, he should easily transition to quail.
Don't know how you are planting pigeons, if you use a launcher the same should work for quail. You should have a solid whoa command. I don't use a checkcord once the dog is standing birds.
When he is on point walk in and flush. I give quiet whoa command as I walk by to flush. If he is steady on pigeons he should easily learn to steady on quail.........Cj

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CDN_Cocker
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by CDN_Cocker » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:20 am

Elhewramblinman wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:45 pm
CDN_Cocker wrote:
Elhewramblinman wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:43 pm

Common sense says I would need to do yard/field work with quail to make him put it together that same rules apply on quail as pigeons.
I'd say the opposite. Maybe wild quail but not planted ones. You need strong flyers. If he's good on pigeons, get him running on wild birds.
Yeah….. except we have very few wild birds here. 2,000 acres hunted in my home state this season with no birds. Not much productive work gonna get done that way.


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Maybe travel out of state then. A bird dog isn't much use if there's no birds out there to be found.
Cass
"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr

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SwitchGrassWPG
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by SwitchGrassWPG » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:43 am

Problems using quail, then use chukar. They generally fly a whole lot better.
Only thing worse than a bad dog is no dog at all...

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cjhills
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by cjhills » Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:24 am

It seems like with your set up you should have the ideal situation. i assume you are talking Bobwhite quail. If you have a call back, the birds fly good after a day or two of being out. If you control the dog on a couple birds he should get it. Don't shoot any birds he chases and get some kind of handle on him. He will be fine.
Hunt test generally have poor flying birds, so the hunt test dogs need to learn to stop for any bird in the air. They all learn that easily.......Cj

Elhewramblinman
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Re: Gamebird Transition

Post by Elhewramblinman » Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:37 am

cjhills wrote:It seems like with your set up you should have the ideal situation. i assume you are talking Bobwhite quail. If you have a call back, the birds fly good after a day or two of being out. If you control the dog on a couple birds he should get it. Don't shoot any birds he chases and get some kind of handle on him. He will be fine.
Hunt test generally have poor flying birds, so the hunt test dogs need to learn to stop for any bird in the air. They all learn that easily.......Cj
I assume he will as well. I think the more we work in a controlled situation the tighter he will get. Thanks for the input like your opinions.


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