Force fetch help.

[Bduke7645]

I’m on week 4 with my shorthair and looking for some advice. We have started with “hold” and breezes through that and have moved to the ear pinch method which is not going to well in my opinion she just still not getting it. I apply pressure she puts the dowel in her mouth and holds which is great I just feel as every time we’re doing this exercise we’re starting at the beginning and not advancing. We are on week 2 of ear pinch and she will still not put a dowel in her mouth without apply pressure i feel as we are not getting any where and looking for some advice as to start apply the collar or try the toe hitch or just keep on the track I’m on

[CDN_Cocker]

You SHOULD be applying pressure and helping the dog physically move forward to the dowel every time. You want to get enough reps in that she starts diving forward for the dowel trying to beat the pressure. Sounds like you have not done that and are asking her to take it

[Bduke7645]

I do help her put the dowel in her mouth every time. We do this 3 times a day for about 10min and 2 weeks later she still not reaching for the dowel or showing any interest in wanting the dowel. The only time the dowel goes in her mouth is if I apply pressure and push the dowel in her mouth.

[Garrison]

Purchase and follow this to the letter and it will all work out for you. Many a retriever enthusiast places this in the same drawer as their Bible.

Garrison

B6CED871-96B3-4AF4-9600-B2DDF7DC460E.png

[deseeker]

You might want to get on your search engine and look up:
Standing Stone Kennels fetch on utube
Ethan has a lot of FREE videos on utube that teach you just about anything on training a dog.
Good luck with you dog

[Coveyrise64]

I've used about every method of Force Fetch. Mainly to be familiar with the good and bad. The one that I think that works well for most amateur or first timers is the Perfect Retrieve DVD by Jon Hann (Perfection Kennels).

CR

[Steve007]

Worth remembering you should also be verbally reinforcing when the dog does it right, which just means making progress. Force fetching for retrievers was started and is implemented by professionals who have to get very quick results for their clients. It is much more pleasant for the dog and rewarding for the owner if you build in some solid praise. Tenacity is required, of course, but it is easy to forget if you simply follow the "rules" that if your dog likes you, you should be telling him that he is doing good work and cheering him on when he does.

[gonehuntin']

SMART FETCH IS THE BIBLE. Every other method of FF was derived from this one, which is really the one Rex Carr perfected. Force is force, but the dog MUST understand it. Everyone is in such a hurry today. You should always use the Jowls to begin FF, it used uncomfortable pressure and makes it so easy for the dog to understand. It is mostly skipped in books or DVD's today and that's a big mistake. Fact is, a dog can be totally FF'd by using the jowl method and probably that is how MOST amateurs should be doing it. By the time you go to the ear pinch the dog should be DRAGGING you to the dowel. I'll try to find a short video I did years ago for a guy and post it if I can to give you an idea.

[gonehuntin']

https://studio.youtube.com/video/vmv5I-yA5Xk/edit

[Garrison]

| Found a couple short clips related to the discussion.

Hold
https://youtu.be/FQx7uB_aGxI

[Garrison]

Pressure
https://youtu.be/IfhVdmrpvPA

[gonehuntin']

Notice that grip carefully. That grip does a third very important thing: It makes it impossible for the dog to bite you. He can neither turn in nor out to bite. Personally, I never like the collar tang to pinch the ear against. You sometimes, with some dog's, have to use too much pressure on it. I preferred to put a golf shoe spike through the collar then blunt and round it. It is a much more precise method of applying pressure. (

Evan didn't show it but to get that bumper in the pup's mouth, he started him with the jowl pinch and went right into hold from there. That's how you get the bumper in the pup's mouth. That's also why the pup was kind of jumping to get the bumper in it's mouth even before the ear pinch was started.

Smart Fetch is the Bible and has been (that method) since I started training in the 70's and before that. Don't mess with what works and works very well.

Great post Garrison.

[mnaj_springer]

Worth remembering you should also be verbally reinforcing when the dog does it right, which just means making progress. Force fetching for retrievers was started and is implemented by professionals who have to get very quick results for their clients. It is much more pleasant for the dog and rewarding for the owner if you build in some solid praise. Tenacity is required, of course, but it is easy to forget if you simply follow the "rules" that if your dog likes you, you should be telling him that he is doing good work and cheering him on when he does.

This right here. Praise. Praise. Praise.

The hardest dog I've had to FF so far is my current EP. She's wants to please and is a sweet dog. She needed the pressure to understand that "Fetch" is no longer optional, but the PRAISE is what turned her into a retrieving machine! She loves it now.

Lots of good advice here on programs and technique, just don't forget the praise.

[Willie T]

Internet training is problematic because I can not read your dog but, it sounds confused. How did you progress from hold to fetch? Simplification is most often the answer when a dog hits a stumbling block in training. Did you apply pressure to solidify the hold command after the dog knew the command? While under the hold command did you tap the object in the dogs mouth? Often the dog will drop the object when you do. Applying pressure till you pop it back in uses a known command to introduce pressure for non compliance. It also cleans up the hold. If you did that did you then overlay “fetch” over “hold”? Hold-fetch-hold. When it had that did you progress then to fetch-hold-fetch? Then hold-fetch? Then fetch-hold? Then finally fetch? All while popping the dummy in the dogs mouth? Did you take all confusion away to help the dog succeed or are you asking it to figure out the pressure on its own? The genesis of force fetch programs was by the retriever guys. The labs they force are bred to be mentally tough and hold up to attrition. Very few pointing dogs have the mental toughness to stand up to that much pressure. On my opinion three 10 minute sessions/day is too much. Try one session of 5-7 minutes/day and simplify. I bet a less is more approach will get you from point A to point B faster and not having as much negative impact on your dog’s attitude.
Willie