Death Shake on Retrieves

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molotov_birddogs
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Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by molotov_birddogs » Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:07 pm

So my two year old gsp lives for retrieving but has this really bad habit of doing a VERY forceful death shake when he is retrieving an object. It could be a bumper, frisbee, stick or anything else. He'll also throw it into the air and catch it in the middle of a retrieve.

Another thing is, I got one of the bumpers with a pheasant pelt on it and the first thing he did when I threw it was tear all the feathers off before I could get to him. I want to do a force fetch but I don't want to spoil it for him. Anyone else have this problem before.

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Sharon
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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by Sharon » Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:54 pm

Spoil it for him. :) He's having fun , but that behaviour won't serve you well when hunting . Be glad he has a desire to retrieve , but get on with the force fetch.
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oldbeek
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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by oldbeek » Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:22 pm

The dummy that has a rubber ball on the end of the throwing string. Dog got it and ate the ball when I wasn't watching. I replaced the ball with a 1 1/8 size steel nut on a 6 inch cord. He will not shake that. Also I can throw it 100 ft with ease with the extra weight.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:43 am

"Don't want to spoil it for him". Odd comment. He's spoiling it for you! Get him under control now, or you may not. At two, he has ingrained habits that you have to break. First, the HERE command. He obviously isn't 100% on it or he wouldn't throw objects in the air and catch them on the way in. That's a sloppy come in. A GSP can be an absolute horrible dog to force break. Before I got into that were I you, I'd work on a non-slip hold and strong HERE. And I'd do it NOW. He's already showing you he has the propensity to be a bird eater.
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molotov_birddogs
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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by molotov_birddogs » Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:57 pm

He recalls as soon as he grabs a bumper, its while he recalls he throws it, chomps it and shakes it. The reason i say i dont want to spoil it for him is because I started to do a ff almost a year ago and something went wrong. He lost almost all interest in bumpers for awhile. I guess I meant to say i dont want to ruin his desire to retrieve.
Last edited by molotov_birddogs on Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by molotov_birddogs » Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:59 pm

I've started doing hold work after he finishes a retrieve and he's already improving. Is there a differnece in the ear pinch and toe hitch in how they respond to the pressure?

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Coveyrise64
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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by Coveyrise64 » Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:19 pm

If the dog was able to pull all the feathers out of the dummy then you had no recall.

1) Recall - No recall, no retrieve regardless of their retrieving skills
2) Solid Hold - The "Hold" is where any and all mouth issues should be addressed
3) Walking Hold - Reinforcement of the "Hold" while the dog is moving

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molotov_birddogs
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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by molotov_birddogs » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:12 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:19 pm
If the dog was able to pull all the feathers out of the dummy then you had no recall.

1) Recall - No recall, no retrieve regardless of their retrieving skills
2) Solid Hold - The "Hold" is where any and all mouth issues should be addressed
3) Walking Hold - Reinforcement of the "Hold" while the dog is moving

CR

When I say he tor the feathers off, I mean within 0.2 seconds of reaching the bumper. And I threw alot farther than I should have where he was out of reach.


Today I pulled out the dowel rod I had used for before for when i was doing ff and he took a gentle hold right away, so mayby some training stuck from the short time I worked on him. That was pretty exciting.
Last edited by molotov_birddogs on Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by K9BigDog » Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:30 am

You may want to try a Dokken Deadfowl retrieving dummy. They have hard plastic heads and legs/feet that are designed to give the dog an unpleasant whack when they do the death shake. They make them in lots of different styles, and you can inject them with scent. I imagine you could probably wrap a pheasant skin around it somehow, too.

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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:42 pm

Don't make excuses for the dog. The toe hitch is a great way to get your face bitten off. I have a short video on here showing a pup I ff'd by ch. with the jowl pinch. Take a look at it. If a dog won't ff using the ear pinch, the jowl pinch is a vey highly effective method and it is still an easy transition to the ecollar from it.
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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by molotov_birddogs » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:01 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:42 pm
Don't make excuses for the dog. The toe hitch is a great way to get your face bitten off. I have a short video on here showing a pup I ff'd by ch. with the jowl pinch. Take a look at it. If a dog won't ff using the ear pinch, the jowl pinch is a vey highly effective method and it is still an easy transition to the ecollar from it.

I'm curious about how you think doing a toe hitch would get your face bit. I've been following the force fetch by Ethan from Standing Stone Kennels and they utilize the toe hitch very well.
Where can I find your video on ff?

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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:28 pm

The short video was done for another person and is on this thread. I believe it's called Help With Force Fetch. So here's the thing about these videos. Most only show them when things go right. Most of the time they don't. Problem's with the toe hitch are multiple. First, your face is too close to the dog. He can easily reach over and tear it out. Sometimes they'll try to when you are putting the toe hitch on. Second, how do you reinforce in the field with it? Using the ear, you can quickly go up to the dog, grab an ear, and make him pick it up. Not so the toe hitch. Third, it doesn't guide the dog's head or control it.

You have to understand that the GSP can be the most difficult of all dog's to ff.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

molotov_birddogs
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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by molotov_birddogs » Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:09 pm

That's very interesting, I don't think I've ever heard of a dog biting while doing ff, but I could see how it's very possible. I have two shorthairs so I'm going to try both methods.



gonehuntin' wrote:
Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:28 pm
You have to understand that the GSP can be the most difficult of all dog's to ff.
I'm going to have to keep this in mind, I suppose I have my work cut out for me. Thank you for the help.

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Re: Death Shake on Retrieves

Post by Sharon » Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:46 pm

I had a pro force fetch train my GSP. Yes , the dog bit him.
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