Winter Training/Training in the Snow

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RatDog
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Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by RatDog » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:41 pm

Does anyone do training in the winter? Specifically in the snow? Is there anything wrong with it? I have been figuring out catching pigeons with a net. I would like to do a little bird work here and there to keep her interested in check cording. Am I being impatient and should just wait until I giver her back to the trainer in the spring? Thanks!

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by Sharon » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:42 pm

I always hesitated to train off leash in the winter. Where we trained there were ponds - half frozen now- and I always
worried about my dog falling through the ice. If you have no ice, I see nothing wrong with training in the winter.
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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by RatDog » Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:49 pm

Sharon wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:42 pm
I always hesitated to train off leash in the winter. Where we trained there were ponds - half frozen now- and I always
worried about my dog falling through the ice. If you have no ice, I see nothing wrong with training in the winter.
I am trying to be pretty disciplined about keeping her on the check cord as a safety issue. Without a reliable whoa or recall it's too dangerous. All the training would be with a check chord.

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by Willie T » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:20 pm

How old is your pup? Flushing or pointing breed?

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by RatDog » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:11 am

Willie T wrote:How old is your pup? Flushing or pointing breed?
5 months. She’s a German shorthair.


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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by shags » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:22 am

Are you talking about a dusting of snow, or is all your cover under lots of it?
I think so much depends on your expertise as a trainer, and where your dog is in the training progression.
If your cover is buried, how much sight pointing over scent pointing do you want to engage in? How are you planning to plant birds in the snow? In my experience, they tend to walk around on top of it, or bury themselves under it. So there's either lots of sightpointing, flushing wild, or difficulty in flushing. Is your dog ready for stop to flush or extended flushing attempts?
How much check cord birdwork are you planning on? In my experience, a dog in training doesn't stay on the cc for very long. My last 3 dogs, it was about a month, if that. But that depends on where your trainer had her when you brought her back home, and what the next step is gonna be. Not saying undesirable things always happen, but I've seen overtraining result in flagging, cringing, headslinging, and those sorts of loss of confidence behaviors.
What's your plan if your pup is ready to come off the cc after a few sessions, but your training conditions aren't good for that?
Sometimes less is more, and patience pays off way better than pushing.

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by Willie T » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:54 am

A book or dvd detailing training a bird dog would serve you well. At 5 months of age I can think of no compelling reason not to establish a recall, introduce gun fire, lose the check cord and run your pup. Be smart about where you run him and only shoot birds he handles correctly but let him learn he is a bird dog. Put him in different types of cover and birds. Let him gain the confidence to get out and hunt. Give him the opportunity for his genetics to express themselves and you just might be pleasantly surprised what happens…
Willie

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by RatDog » Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:09 am

Thanks for the helpful responses. There is a lot of snow on the ground already, like 2’ maybe. The one time I did it I tied a section of hose to the birds’ feet. There were clumps of grass sticking up out of the snow so I stuck the bird in a clump and wrapped the cord around some grass. I tried to check cord her into it working at right angles to the scent cone but there was no wind. Did that from a couple of angles and had to get her pretty much on top of the bird before she keyed in on the scent. I held her and worked my way up until I got an arm around her belly then had my son kick around in the grass until he got to the bird. He picked it up and showed it to her, tried to entice her with it until she really wanted it then tossed it up in the air. I held her a beat then let her run after it until the end of the cord. I tried not to stop her hard. Bird flew about 100-200 yds and we repeated.

I agree, need a plan. Figure out what I’m trying to accomplish. I have a chain gang set up in my garage which is heated. I think I’ll just focus on getting her to stand still and transition from the chain to the lead. Do some lead work and start working on the recall. I’d also like to train a place command to get her to go to her dog bed when she’s being a pain. I should reach out to the trainer and get his thoughts but I feel like I bug him with questions a lot.

Thanks again!


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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by Willie T » Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:43 am

What you are doing may cause your dog to road in and crowd birds. When your dog smells the bird and takes one step toward it, the bird needs to go up. No interference or words from the handler. The point is a dance between the bird and the dog. After it flushes and chases its share of birds, it will start flash pointing them. The bird belongs to the dog.

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by shags » Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:57 am

I think your manners training sounds good. For a house dog, it'll pay off big time.
Figure the hours spent as a companion over 13-14 years and it's so nice to have a mannerly unobnoxious dog.
Enjoy the ride with your pup, it sounds like she's a nice one.

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by RatDog » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:26 pm

shags wrote:I think your manners training sounds good. For a house dog, it'll pay off big time.
Figure the hours spent as a companion over 13-14 years and it's so nice to have a mannerly unobnoxious dog.
Enjoy the ride with your pup, it sounds like she's a nice one.
Thanks shags! I want to be a little careful not to overdo the obedience for fear of killing her drive and independence. Wolter’s seemed to think that wasn’t an issue so maybe it’s fine. I think so long as I keep the sessions under 15 minutes a couple of times a day I should be alright. I’m definitely going to stay away from sit for the time being.


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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by shags » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:33 pm

Dogs can be perfectly mannerly, obedient and retain all their confidence, independence, and drive. Just don't be a heavy handed jerk of a trainer :) Or, get into setters, they're perfect right out of the whelping box :mrgreen:

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:02 pm

Training in the SNOW is basically, a waste of time. In the winter I do obedience, FF, etc; all things I can do indoors. I do road them in the snow. Working birds in the snow can cause more problems than it's worth.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by RatDog » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:31 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Training in the SNOW is basically, a waste of time. In the winter I do obedience, FF, etc; all things I can do indoors. I do road them in the snow. Working birds in the snow can cause more problems than it's worth.
That seems to be the consensus. The trainer politely told me to knock it off. Patience has never been my strong suit. I’ve been focusing on obedience and trying to build her natural retrieve.

It was useful going around and talking to some farmers and finding some abandoned barns. Now I have some places to trap/catch pigeons in the spring once I get a loft built. Found an out of business dairy farm that is a pigeon gold mine!


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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by cjhills » Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:00 am

Ratdog
The best thing you could do for your dog and yourself right now, assuming it will a family bird dog, is to spend as much time as you can with her. Take her everywhere you can. Just hanging out and learning there are things she is not allowed to do. As much happy timing off leash as you can without formal training or pressure. Maybe very light e-collar to enforce "here" and other commands. No pressure just learning to be your companion and communicating with you. Both of you will learn that you can communicate with body language and not a lot of loud commands. You will get to where you can nearly mentally communicate with your dog. I think it will do wonders for both of you.
You sound like you put too much pressure on yourself and the dog. Sometimes the best training is no training. Well bred bird dog pups need very little bird work to get them started on the right track.
Remember, you are not teaching the dog anything she does not already know, just training her to do things she knows when you want her to do them.
Relax and enjoy. Constantly training an intelligent dog can drive it crazy.....Cj
PS. One more thing if you are ever going to train a decent dog you, will need to learn patience. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was a good dog,

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by RatDog » Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:41 pm

cjhills wrote:Ratdog
The best thing you could do for your dog and yourself right now, assuming it will a family bird dog, is to spend as much time as you can with her. Take her everywhere you can. Just hanging out and learning there are things she is not allowed to do. As much happy timing off leash as you can without formal training or pressure. Maybe very light e-collar to enforce "here" and other commands. No pressure just learning to be your companion and communicating with you. Both of you will learn that you can communicate with body language and not a lot of loud commands. You will get to where you can nearly mentally communicate with your dog. I think it will do wonders for both of you.
You sound like you put too much pressure on yourself and the dog. Sometimes the best training is no training. Well bred bird dog pups need very little bird work to get them started on the right track.
Remember, you are not teaching the dog anything she does not already know, just training her to do things she knows when you want her to do them.
Relax and enjoy. Constantly training an intelligent dog can drive it crazy.....Cj
PS. One more thing if you are ever going to train a decent dog you, will need to learn patience. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was a good dog,
Thanks! That all sounds line very sound advice.

I work at a mine so I’m up there for five days then home for five. When I’m gone she’s in the kennel during the day then palling around with my wife and boys in the afternoon and evening.

When I am home I have a tie-out set up in the garage and have been using it to get her to stand still at my side. I’ve got it so I can walk away and she’ll stay put. I’m working towards being able to leave the room.

I take her for a couple of walks a day where I work on recall with the check cord 3-5 times a walk. I’ve been randomly working in some other stuff like heeling and retrieving. I keep it very short and do my best to make it fun.

I try to take her with me pretty much everywhere. The hardware store, ski hill, kids sports etc.

I need to find some good spots to just let her rip. I can’t let her off the check cord on the trails around my house because she’s started ranging out pretty far and has crossed a road or gotten into someone’s garage a few times. Getting her to come when called is a real priority for that reason.

There’s some fishing accesses and other parcels of state land I’ll start trying out and just put the gps collar on her. She’s hasn’t totally taken off yet but she has steadily increased her range over time and likes to play hard to get until she’s ready to come in.

Your point about patience is well taken. There was a shoulder season there between fishing and skiing where I didn’t have anything to focus on except the new hound. That is over now that ski season has started. I suppose the birds will have to wait until the spring thaw.

I am going to build a pigeon trap this days off and test it out though. If I get a few maybe freeze one and use it for retrieving to keep her interested.

Thanks again!

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Re: Winter Training/Training in the Snow

Post by DonF » Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:35 pm

Kind of hard to do some things in the snow I would think. I'd be real careful of creating a new problem forr the trainer to work on. With 2' of snow there's not a whole lot of prodductive work youcan do outside of basic obedience.
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