Puppy will not give

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Pluffmud
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Puppy will not give

Post by Pluffmud » Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:54 pm

My four month old Boykin has high bird drive. She loves the boat, is not afraid of the gun, associates the ecollar and gun with retrieves, and absolutely is wired for birds. I have not used any pressure with her yet, she is being collar conditioned. Recently, I introduced her to birds... First I put duck wings on her bumper. Then I threw some marks with frozen dove. I put her on some live quail last week, and yesterday I took her on the boat and put her on some water retrieves for marsh hens. She was a little hesitant to jump in, but other than that she did great. Today I put her on a live quail again. She killed it very quickly.... Not sure if that in of itself is concerning. My problem is, is that she wants to chew on the birds and will NOT give the birds. The bumpers are fine, she gives no problem. The birds however, she clamps down almost so hard that I can't get the bird out. I've popped her on the nose and commanded GIVE and she will let go momentarily, but she still manages to clamp onto a wing and I pop her again. She wants the birds so bad she literally shakes. I give her things to chew on... Kongs toys, rawhides, bones, bully sticks, and a couple plush/squeaky toys. Is there something I need to change to or add to stop this behavior? Will force fetch fix this problem? Thanks for your help.
Last edited by Pluffmud on Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vonzeppelinkennels
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:08 pm

I know this sounds too simple to work & I don't know why it works but never failed for me. Reach back & put your hand or fingers under her flank or take hold if it with your thumb & fore finger & lift up say give as you do this & eventually give alone will do the trick just takes repetition. Good luck & have fun.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:44 pm

You can be headed for a mess of problems with a pup like that (many are). First things first. Always, ALWAYS, have him on a CC so he HAS to come back to you. NEVER get mad at him. I always simply reel him in to me, coaxing him all the way, then pinch those sharp little upper canines of his against his upper jowls and command DROP, then praise the tar out of him. That way his is learning a command you will use later when, hopefully, you force fetch him. NEVER LET HIM CHEW ON THE BIRD. That's a real NO-NO. If he gets to where he starts tearing the bird apart and eating it, take it all RETRIEVED birds away until after FF. Still fine to work him the field pointing. Pups are fun, but can be trying little buggers.

The "Look". "you want this bird, try and take it".

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Pluffmud
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by Pluffmud » Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:22 pm

Thank yall for the help. I always keep her in the check cord when retrieving. I will admit, sometimes I can get frustrated. The first live bird she ever got, she wouldn't give the bird and she growled and bit me. I was furious and popped her pretty good... I know that's not fun for her. All of the other birds I still had to pop her to get her to let go. I try to praise her as much as I can. I'll try to put her on another live bird next week, but if she continues to mouth the bird and not let go, I'll just keep her off of live birds until after Force Fetch.

Steve007
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by Steve007 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:32 pm

You can try a number of things to get her to release. Vonzeppelinkennels has an idea that I have heard before, and no doubt it will work based on the individual dog. Something else you might consider is to blow sharply into her nose -- just a fast strong puff-- after giving the command, of course. You should get her to release on other things, too, if she doesn't already. That will build an automatic habit that will transition to birds... probably , FF will correct the problem, but you might want to try other things before then.

jmez
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by jmez » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:39 pm

Blow in her ear she will let go. You have to be quick as she'll immediately try to grab it again.

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CDN_Cocker
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by CDN_Cocker » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:17 am

Just open her mouth and take it. Make sure she's dragging a line so she can't take off. You can fix the not giving it back when you start hold training.
Cass
"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr

Pluffmud
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by Pluffmud » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:22 am

Thanks for the tips. I've tried all of the suggestions, and some work better than others with her. I was surprised that the lip pinch on her tooth just didn't work... I lifted up on her belly and she gave after a few seconds, popping her in the nose helped a little. I think at this point, I'll keep birds away from her until after FF. It's obvious she has high drive, so I think she will be ok away from birds until afterwards.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:34 am

If the lip pinch didn't work, you didn't do it hard enough. Slapping on the nose causes hand shyness and teaches nothing. Blowing in the ear can get your face bit. So can the flank pinch. I hate getting bit.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by DonF » Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:15 pm

Couple problems, hard mouth and refusing to let go. My first though is she needs forced fetched. That should help with the hard mouth. The release is easy. Bring her in and be down on one knee, other knee up. Pull her into the spot between your knees and with your right hand over her back stroke her and love her up. left thumb under hre collar controls the head. After several stroks go to the flank at the end of a pet and hook with two middle fingers remove thumb from the collar and get the object lift and give the release command all at the same time. The pup will let go of the object to remove the up lift and it's in your hand. Immediately when you have the object straighten the fingers and go back to petting. To remove the hand from pups thight flap it has to mty its mouth, that is released and you end it immediately. I have only seen one dog that it didn't work on! But with that dog saving grrace was the dog was not hard mouth. If you don't want to force break, use frozen birds for dummys. Out ot the freezer and allow to thaw about 20 min. Feathers should be thawed but body still frozen. Most dogs won't bite into the frozen body.
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DonF
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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by DonF » Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:26 pm

Pluffmud wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:22 pm
Thank yall for the help. I always keep her in the check cord when retrieving. I will admit, sometimes I can get frustrated. The first live bird she ever got, she wouldn't give the bird and she growled and bit me. I was furious and popped her pretty good... I know that's not fun for her. All of the other birds I still had to pop her to get her to let go. I try to praise her as much as I can. I'll try to put her on another live bird next week, but if she continues to mouth the bird and not let go, I'll just keep her off of live birds until after Force Fetch.
She growled because you were taking the bird, don't take the bird, have her give it to you! Don't pinch the thigh flap. lift it! To remove the fingers she drops the object in your other hand and immediately realeasing the flap she turns back to the object that you already have in your other hand. Amazing how well this really works! it's magic!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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Re: Puppy will not give

Post by Swampbilly » Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:22 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:34 am
If the lip pinch didn't work, you didn't do it hard enough. Slapping on the nose causes hand shyness and teaches nothing. Blowing in the ear can get your face bit. So can the flank pinch. I hate getting bit.
+1..
Pinch some lips and command DROP!

No hitting!

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