Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

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TheBigShooter
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Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by TheBigShooter » Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:21 am

Hi Everyone,

First post on the forum, been reading threads on here for a while before getting my pup. I have a currently 11 week old female brit from a good pedigree of hunting and field trialing.

I understand that she is young but she doesn't seem to notice birds and I'm trying not to put any pressure on her and let her be a pup right now but I can't help but be a little concerned that potentially the birdiness isn't there. We are working on basic obedience and she will fetch a bumped in the house until she's asleep on her feet (I make it more of a game for her than a training exercise). My question is should I get a pigeon and try to "unlock" her birdiness or let her develop on her own? I've read lots of conflicting things about some trainers exposing pups to birds at 12 weeks, some at 7 weeks, some waiting until the pup points birds in the yard, and I'm just looking for some input from trainers that definitely have more experience than I.

Thanks in Advance,

Big Shooter

Elhewramblinman
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by Elhewramblinman » Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:31 pm

I had the same questions a few months ago. I got some great feedback from the folks on here. Learning from my mistake, I introduced my dog to birds at four months and should have waited till at least 6 months. I have been using the Dave Walker method and I have had great luck. You will be amazed the maturity change in just a few months makes.

I’d focus on basic obedience and let the dog be a pup. I’ve had to work through a few problems (flagging) because I started to soon with to much pressure.

Not the gospel just my opinion.


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RayGubernat
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:30 am

IMO if the pup has good genetics it is highly likely trhat it has all the "birdiness" you will need ...already in there. Most well bred bird dogs come out of the birth canal with more than we can harness.

Most new bird dog owners have the same concerns you voiced, and think that a large part of it is OUR impatience with the process. A puppy will often show its tendencies when it sees a butterfly in the yard.

I would not be concerned with such a young puppy. Heck, at that age, they are still figuring out which one of their feet is in the front. I have pretty highly bred bird dogs which I train for horseback field trials and I routinely do not even show them a bird, of any kind, until they ae six to eight months of age. I want the dog to WANT to be with me, which means bonding with them first. At the same time, I introduce them to heel, whoa, come in and hunt dead. The birds come after...for me.

Enjoy the pup, as a pup and let it grow...with you. Have fun.

RayG

TheBigShooter
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by TheBigShooter » Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:48 am

Thanks Ray, I appreciate the info. I need to let the dog tell me when it's ready to train. Right now to her sparrows, robins and butterflies are just things that exist in the world and not any sort of game. Patience is a virtue and one I need to work on developing. I purchased training with Mo as I will be following that when the time comes.

I guess part of it is with all the different information that's strewn out there a trainer (or want to be trainer in my case) needs to pick a method and stick it through.


Big Shooter

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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by Sureshotshane » Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:04 am

I have a brittany that is 7.5 months old. She is the opposite of your pup. At 10 weeks old she wanted to chase sparrows, butterflies, and bumblebees. She is so distracted by the sights and smells that she gets bored retrieving after a couple throws. I introduced her to pigeons early on but it wasn't necessary, the genetics will shine through eventually.

This is a video of my pup at 15 weeks and her intro to pigeons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXRNR2y5tY8
Last edited by Sureshotshane on Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sharon
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by Sharon » Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:23 pm

Couldn't get that link to work sureshot. Maybe you could give it another try? Love to see that pup. :)
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by Mosby » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:31 pm

RayGubernat wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:30 am
IMO if the pup has good genetics it is highly likely trhat it has all the "birdiness" you will need ...already in there. Most well bred bird dogs come out of the birth canal with more than we can harness.

Most new bird dog owners have the same concerns you voiced, and think that a large part of it is OUR impatience with the process. A puppy will often show its tendencies when it sees a butterfly in the yard.

I would not be concerned with such a young puppy. Heck, at that age, they are still figuring out which one of their feet is in the front. I have pretty highly bred bird dogs which I train for horseback field trials and I routinely do not even show them a bird, of any kind, until they ae six to eight months of age. I want the dog to WANT to be with me, which means bonding with them first. At the same time, I introduce them to heel, whoa, come in and hunt dead. The birds come after...for me.

Enjoy the pup, as a pup and let it grow...with you. Have fun.

RayG
I agree with all of the above and think it is great advice. I have a young Vizsla and have been trying to follow the same advice myself. No need to rush.

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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:05 am

TheBigShooter wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:48 am
Thanks Ray, I appreciate the info. I need to let the dog tell me when it's ready to train. Right now to her sparrows, robins and butterflies are just things that exist in the world and not any sort of game. Patience is a virtue and one I need to work on developing. I purchased training with Mo as I will be following that when the time comes.

I guess part of it is with all the different information that's strewn out there a trainer (or want to be trainer in my case) needs to pick a method and stick it through.


Big Shooter
I have read Training with Mo and it is a fine method for developing a gundog. In my expeerience, brittanys can be quite senstive to negative pressure and Mo's methodology is very focused on postive reinforcement, which dovetails well with the typical Brittany 's makeup.

In a few weeks, if you can get your hands on a pigeon or chuckar, you can have it in your hand and wave it around while the pup is running free. The sight of a bird in yourhand flapping away should stimulate some interest and that is all you should need to see.

Once the light comes on... you will know.

The tendency of the one dog owner to want to get from here to there as quickly as possible is very common. It is especially common to have anxiety when the owner is also new at the training task, so do not beat yourself up over it.

Patience is a virtue that I myself do not have enough of...and I have been messing with bird dogs for a loooooong time. They are only puppies for a relatively short time, so enjoy. It is a long time from now until November and a lot of things can happen. If you do your best to make sure the pup thinks the sun rises and sets on you... it will all work out.

The one major thing I love about Brittanys is their awesome attitude. They run up to you, look up and with their eyes and body language shout out the question..." OK I'm here, you're here... so when does the party start??" They are a fun dog.

RayG

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deseeker
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by deseeker » Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:31 am

I used to breed about 1 litter of britts every year or two. Starting about 6 weeks old, I would start exposing the pups to dead quail. By the time they went to their new homes, I had them carrying the dead quail around--I even had a few of them bringing them back to me and getting a treat in exchange for the dead quail. But that's just me--I start them early. It was also part of my socialization of the pups. I used to spend a lot of time with my litters. :D Work with your pup a lot & get him to think his world revolves around YOU. Good luck with your new pup. :D

Sureshotshane
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by Sureshotshane » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:35 pm

Sharon wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:23 pm
Couldn't get that link to work sureshot. Maybe you could give it another try? Love to see that pup. :)
Hmmm.. Not sure what was wrong with it but here it is again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXRNR2y5tY8

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Sharon
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by Sharon » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:17 am

Got it. That's an excellent video. Beautiful little pup. Thanks. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by BlessedGirl » Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:36 am

Wow, she's beautiful and smart. Good luck with training!
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deseeker
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by deseeker » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:03 pm

Sureshot--Good looking pup. :D

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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by DonF » Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:10 pm

I ran into that problem with my Stormy. Really didn't seem to care about the birds at all as a puppy. About ready to give up on him and at 11 mos he pointed his first bird! 11 mos!!!! Well he also developed really fast from that point on and is a really nice dog today. When my old ES Bodie was about 10 wks old I planted a pigeon in a trap for him. Up till then I simply let him chase "bleep" birds. Well about 10 weeks and he pointed the first bird I ever planted for him. Dog's! can't be sure what they will do till they do it. But trust the breeding! very important I think, trust the breeding. Don't get show bred dogs, get field bred dogs! Trust the breeding, think I said that!
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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by TheBigShooter » Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:07 am

Just to update everyone here is what I did and seems to work for me;

I picked up some frozen chukars and did some retrieving work being careful to never overdo it to keep her interest up.

Next, I picked up a couple live chukars, carded them and planted them in some tall grass. I waited a few minutes and let the dog find the bird (Note: I waited ample time to let my scent die down and started by leading her in a different pattern that what I walked in so she wouldn't just be following my scent to the bird). The first time she saw the bird she tried to attack it but since I had her on a check cord I could easily control the situation and not let her get at the bird. We both walked away and I planted the bird in a different location. This time, we got close and she went on point and held it making me a happy trainer. I had a helper hold the check cord and I walked up in front of her and flushed the bird. We have now done another session with live birds and she hasn't tried to catch the bird since the first time I took her out.

Its also important to mention a couple things for anyone that may find themselves in the same boat that I did.

1 - As hard as it is try to not put pressure on the pup, he/she is very young and may not understand right away what you are asking of him/her. If you as the trainer are emotional or upset or not having a good day try and do something else with the pup that is fun like going for a walk or having some playtime. Your emotions rub off on the pup.

2 - Believe. Have faith that your due diligence and research on the breeding of your pup will bring you what you are looking for. I'm guilty of it. I thought my pup wouldn't figure it out because she wasn't pointing every sparrow, swallow, magpie, crow, etc. she sees. The dog is born with instincts that we as trainers sometimes need to help them unlock.

Thanks you to everyone on the forum for their help.

Big Shooter

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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by Syher1 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:10 pm

Thank you for the update. I have an 8 month old Brittany and I have yet to do any pointing drills with him. I’ve been focusing on obedience at the moment. I too am worried about his pointing abilities for the same reasons you had. Because of your updated post, I am hopeful. Thank you again!

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Re: Brittany Puppy Training/Bird Exposure

Post by DonF » Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:25 am

I don't think you really need to worry about pointing abilities in a dog bred to point to begin with. simply expose the dog. Good way I think is walking the pup around in fields and let it chase d*cky birds. Pup won't catch them but it does start the pup hunting. I do not believe in the beginning dogs can define one bird from another, we teach them to do that. Read that a lot of people won't train on pigeons because they doin't hunt pigeons. Other's use pigeons but do to much hands on work and as a result teach the dog what a training bird is and the dog reacts differently to training birds. Some even simply go away from training birds. But there's a problem with pen raised game birds also. A lot of them don't fly well and you run the risk early on of teaching a young dog it can catch the bird's if only they will chase them. That leads to dogs breaking point and getting them on the ground. Don't blame the dog for that, your the one that taught that. Friend of my has a really nice E. Setter but she made those mistakes ealy on and she tried trialing in broke dog stakes but the dog won't hold point on pen raised birds. Yet on wild birds the dog is a beautiful sight, her first pointing dog and she made some bad mistakes if she wanted a trial dog. So why not train on wild birds? Well the wild bird doesn't have your scent on it and maybe even more important is the wild bird won't allow the dog liberty's the trainer does hoping to get a point. But with the pigeon and remote traps the game changes a great deal. All of a sudden the training bird co-operates with the trainer and acts like a wild bird to the dog, depending on the trainer. Yep your scent is still there bit the bird isn't allowing the dog any freedoms! It becomes you business then to insure the bird act's like a wild bird and not a training bird. Take pen raised birds and put them in the trap and unless they are out of well flight conditioned birds, you could pop them and have them come right back bown on the ground. Or maybe actually fly off a bit but land to soon. Then your teaching the dog to chase the bird and it will likely get the bird. Bear in mind that the bird is what the dog wants! Now it's gonna want the training bird same as the wild bird but on the training bird if it mess's up most trainers correct the dog with some sort of disapline, correction. People that train only on wild birds aren't gonna be able to do that problem being the birds, wild ones, won't co-operate with you or be right where your sure they need to be. Dog get's to close on the up wind side of a wild bird and the bird flush's. Same thing with a training bird and the handler, unless he has a remote trap, simply try's to get the dog around into the downwind side. have a remote trap? You need to use the trap like the bird in the trap is wild. Watch some trainers go into a planted bird and kick brush. They are trying to get the dog to make a mistake so they can correct the dog. Try the same thing with a wild bird and the birds is normally not going to allow that. Wild bird does not care what you think the dog need's to learn.

So I believe that the best way to get a pup going is long walks and letting it try to catch d*cky birds. Watch enough and you'll notice at some point the pup hesitates before trying for the catch. That is called progress and d*cky birds are free! At the same time you take that young pup out and let it get to close to the bird your tossing and the bird slaps the pup around with it's wings and your actually teaching the pup that a bird can fight back. Not with all pups mind you, some are certainly bold enough to take it. They never get that from a d*cky bird and they learn from a d*cky bird their movement toward the bird cause's the bird to fly away. D*cky bird is a training bird but that part is never taught the pup. Why would a pup quit chasing them? Well you don't want the pup to quit chasing them, shoot some for the pup and they will chase. Pup's don't have a clue what kind of bird it is, only that they want it. Take a chukar dog and never allow it to run into any other type bird and the first time it runs into say a quail, it will hesitate, seem confused and will creap on you till it figures out it's a bird you'll shoot for it. Pointing is bred in but you can teach it not to, just shoot everything no matter how the pup handles it. Pup doesn't seem to care about the bird? Give the pup time and good breeding will overcome that for you, but you have to be willing to wait on the pup!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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