Gun Dog Forum

A quick question on collar breaking for you all. I thought it was going to be really easy to tell what level of stimulation is right for a dog. Everyone says a similar thing: the dog should blink, shake its head, or something out of the ordinary. First I tested a couple levels on my fingers and level two was almost making me shudder. I tried it on my dog and I got to level 4 and quit because I wondered how high I should really go. I'm sure I'd be wincing pretty hard on level 4, but I got barely any response out of her. After a second or so she kinda blinked, but it wasn't soon enough for me to be sure if she actually felt it... What do you think I should do next? Should I wait a while and then try again?

BTW, personality-wise she's not soft. Boldest thing ever. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. It really takes a lot for her to take notice of something she doesn't want to. For example, she's the only dog on the farm that never took notice of gunfire. All the others shudder and quake when there's target practicing going on and she acts like nothing ever phased her.

What kind of collar system did you go with? I seem to remember you were thinking about a Garmin 550 Pro Plus. If you aren't getting any more than that out of level 4 on that collar system I'd say you may be in for a ride with that pooch Are you sure the collar is tight enough? Are you using the longer collar prongs? I am short on experience but I have a setter and my "go to" nick level is 2 with 3 at the ready for those "I'm gonna bend my neck situations "

I remember when collar settings were On and Off. Then they went to High and Low. Today's collars have so many settings that some of the lower numbers are barely perceptible, so maybe a 4 on a new one isn't like a 4 on an older model like mine.

Test the collar on the inside of your forearm instead of your fingers. Fingers are way more sensitive than arms. Some people test on their own necks.
Make sure that the collar is snug on your dog's neck and that the prongs are making contact with the skin. The long ones may work better on thick hair.

I'm with everybody else--make sure the collar is tight enough and you are useing the long prongs. Good luck.

BG -

FWIW -

When I use my Tritronics, 6 level e-collar on one of my pointer youngsters, I rarely need to go beyond a level 3 stim. If I am using my DT (6 level??) unit on the belly, I almost never go beyond level 2. The few times I have had to hit a dog with a high hard one(for chasing and such) it usually stops the dog dead in its tracks and I have to go and get the dog because it will not move.

A level 4 stim(out of 6) is pretty sharp and certainly should elicit a response from the dog. I suspect the points are not making contact. The collar needs to be quite tight , especially on a "shaggy" dog. As mentioned, the long prongs might be needed.

If you can't figure it out...find a good pro or experienced amateur and ask for help. E-collars are a VERY powerful tool, so care is advisable.

RayG

I agree with everybody else. If the dog is not reacting, you probably are not making contact. If you are referencing your Border Collie it would for sure need long prongs.
I use a pro 70 Garmin Tritronics, level 1 is pretty mild but I have never seen a dog wearing a collar for the first time that showed no response at a no.2 setting and I would never go higher for collar conditioning. Most dogs would vocalize on 2 or 3 never tried 5 or 6 on a dog or myself.
Something must be wrong. Maybe try the tone setting......Cj

I think it's the way you have it on BUT there are dogs that are very electrically tolerant. I once trained a lab (turned out to be one of my favorite dog's I've owned) that had such a high threshold that you could set the collar on it's highest setting and he'd cock his head, sit, and scratch his neck with his hind foot like a flea was biting him. Cracked my up. When I was collar breaking him, clients used to come and watch it. However, that's very, very, rare. With some Golden's we used to shave the neck to get contact. Test it on yourself and see. Easy diagnosis.

A good rule of thumb is if you can get more than one finger between the dogs neck and collar it may be to loose. Keep going and you will get it correct for your individual.

shags wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:17 am

I remember when collar settings were On and Off. Then they went to High and Low. Today's collars have so many settings that some of the lower numbers are barely perceptible, so maybe a 4 on a new one isn't like a 4 on an older model like mine.

Test the collar on the inside of your forearm instead of your fingers. Fingers are way more sensitive than arms. Some people test on their own necks.
Make sure that the collar is snug on your dog's neck and that the prongs are making contact with the skin. The long ones may work better on thick hair.

Excellent advice in these posts, but I'll pass on that.

Yes, I went with the Garmin Pro 550+. It has 18 levels of stimulation and I can't see why she wouldn't flinch at the shock. She definitely feels the electric fence when she runs under it. BTW, this is my setter I'm dealing with in this thread, CJ. Her coat is not long and I wouldn't say it's abnormally thick, either. I wear the collar pretty tight on her and I'm not sure if I could actually go another notch without choking her or at least making her pretty uncomfortable.

I tried it on the inside of my forearm like you suggested, Shags. I'm with Sharon - not about to try it on my neck, either. It's definitely noticeable by level 3, but I went up to level 5 before I chickened out. I guess if I can stand it maybe she can too...?

BlessedGirl wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:46 pm

A quick question on collar breaking for you all. I thought it was going to be really easy to tell what level of stimulation is right for a dog. Everyone says a similar thing: the dog should blink, shake its head, or something out of the ordinary. First I tested a couple levels on my fingers and level two was almost making me shudder. I tried it on my dog and I got to level 4 and quit because I wondered how high I should really go. I'm sure I'd be wincing pretty hard on level 4, but I got barely any response out of her. After a second or so she kinda blinked, but it wasn't soon enough for me to be sure if she actually felt it... What do you think I should do next? Should I wait a while and then try again?

BTW, personality-wise she's not soft. Boldest thing ever. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. It really takes a lot for her to take notice of something she doesn't want to. For example, she's the only dog on the farm that never took notice of gunfire. All the others shudder and quake when there's target practicing going on and she acts like nothing ever phased her.

At a guess, my threshold level of stim would be higher than yours . So, guessing the same would be for every dog . Collar breaking is a difficult term to use or interoperate. If everyone else is saying the same or similar thing on the internet or a forum , that doesn't mean they are all right/ or all wrong .
Waiting a while would get the same result from the same dog (imo) If I were You I would look at 'collar conditioning' (that in it'self conjures up many interpretations) rather than what is typed and understood by 'collar breaking' .
BTW , personality-wise often the softest dogs are the boldest hunters and the boldest in the pack are "bleep" cats with pressure. (ime)
.....
Probably --Golden rule - Don't go messing with e-collar training unless you know and understand a program of collar training on a dog .......

BlessedGirl wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:56 am

Yes, I went with the Garmin Pro 550+. It has 18 levels of stimulation and I can't see why she wouldn't flinch at the shock. She definitely feels the electric fence when she runs under it. BTW, this is my setter I'm dealing with in this thread, CJ. Her coat is not long and I wouldn't say it's abnormally thick, either. I wear the collar pretty tight on her and I'm not sure if I could actually go another notch without choking her or at least making her pretty uncomfortable.

I tried it on the inside of my forearm like you suggested, Shags. I'm with Sharon - not about to try it on my neck, either. It's definitely noticeable by level 3, but I went up to level 5 before I chickened out. I guess if I can stand it maybe she can too...?

That post answers a lot. The dog is electrically tolerant. Don't worry about numbers, keep raising the setting until you get a flinch. Story for your entertainment: Not sure they still do, but the old 70's had an audible buzz when you hit the button. If you put it next to your ear, you could hear it so knew it was working. The 70's had one setting: Barbecue. It was a scorcher of a day in Idaho and I was sweating bullets. Grabbed a collar and checked it, holding it next to my ear and hitting the button. The collar arced across to my ear or hair. Never did that again.

BG - It has 18 levels of stim but thats for 3 dogs/collars. Each dog has 6 + Vibrate and Tone. So 6 for each collar out there. At least that's how I read it. Number 3 on my forearm makes me jump pretty good . I used level 6 on my dog for porcupine/deer breaking and I can tell you he will not go near a porcupine or deer anymore and it didn't take much at all to get him there.

Polmaise, being the greenest of the green out here, I don't know all the proper terms. Forgive my ignorance.

birds wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:25 pm

BG - It has 18 levels of stim but thats for 3 dogs/collars. Each dog has 6 + Vibrate and Tone. So 6 for each collar out there. At least that's how I read it. Number 3 on my forearm makes me jump pretty good . I used level 6 on my dog for porcupine/deer breaking and I can tell you he will not go near a porcupine or deer anymore and it didn't take much at all to get him there.

From what I've tested so far, mine has 18 levels. The dial has 6 stimulation settings and on each one I can do three different levels on one collar. I think it also says 18 levels on the package.

gonehuntin' wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:26 pm

That post answers a lot. The dog is electrically tolerant. Don't worry about numbers, keep raising the setting until you get a flinch. Story for your entertainment: Not sure they still do, but the old 70's had an audible buzz when you hit the button. If you put it next to your ear, you could hear it so knew it was working. The 70's had one setting: Barbecue. It was a scorcher of a day in Idaho and I was sweating bullets. Grabbed a collar and checked it, holding it next to my ear and hitting the button. The collar arced across to my ear or hair. Never did that again.

Ouch! that's gotta be tough! I don't know what the issue was with my dog, but I think it's solved. I sat her down on the sidewalk today and tried again. It was snowing so she was blinking the snowflakes out of her eyes the whole time. Results? Level 1: blinking; level 2: blinking; level 3: quickly standing up. What do you think?

I think if level 6 makes my dog yelp in pain I don't ever want to know what level 18 is.

The 550 has 6 settings on the dial but each has a high medium low. So there is 18 settings. If you watch any Perfection kennel videos they stress always constant not momentary.

birds wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:25 pm

BG - It has 18 levels of stim but thats for 3 dogs/collars. Each dog has 6 + Vibrate and Tone. So 6 for each collar out there. At least that's how I read it. Number 3 on my forearm makes me jump pretty good . I used level 6 on my dog for porcupine/deer breaking and I can tell you he will not go near a porcupine or deer anymore and it didn't take much at all to get him there.

You should review you're understanding of the collar. The 18 levels are for ONE DOG. You have to toggle between dogs to get another dog. Your stimulation levels are 1-6 and the choice of low, medium, or high stimulation giving you 18 levels PER DOG, total.

Agree with the others. Insure the collar is good and snug first. On the other hand individual dogs are different. I use a garmin tritronics sport pro. Stim levels are 1-10. I run the six year old on level 3. Level 5 will make him vocalize. The six and a half month old pup gives no indication until level 7 and then just scratches his neck and shows no other discomfort.
Willie

Yep. I did last night. Boy. Good thing I have a dog that is relatively uncomplicated and fails to respond negatively to the technological ignorance of his "master". But in this case no harm, no foul I guess
I was attracted to that collar system largely by the simplicity of its GPS system, single collar and less by its myriad of stimulus choices. As it turns out (except for the early porky and deer breaking) he responds well tones for turning and recall and to HI/Lo nicks on number 2 and/or 3 on the dial (very rarely 4) I know - not the continuous stim of "Perfection videos, but as I have read on here many, many times there are many ways to get from there to here - I am a excellent example of how well good dog genetics illustrates this concept.
Honestly, other than feeling stupid, I am glad it turned out the way it did and he is not in need of 18 stimulation levels as I guess some dogs are at certain times. Somehow we seem to get it done and remain great pals. Maybe he overlooks my mountainous shortcomings as a trainer in light of the fact that I have a time, a truck and know lots of landowners with lots of wild birds. In truth I'm likely just a tool in his hunting arsenal.

BlessedGirl wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:38 pm

Polmaise, being the greenest of the green out here, I don't know all the proper terms. Forgive my ignorance.


From what I've tested so far, mine has 18 levels. The dial has 6 stimulation settings and on each one I can do three different levels on one collar. I think it also says 18 levels on the package.

I don't know what the issue was with my dog, but I think it's solved. I sat her down on the sidewalk today and tried again. It was snowing so she was blinking the snowflakes out of her eyes the whole time. Results? Level 1: blinking; level 2: blinking; level 3: quickly standing up. What do you think?

Ignorance is bliss.
Took me years to get my head round the concept .
Pretty sure the application of appliance is more important than the package instructions for all dogs and handlers.
Snowflakes may not be the best test bed , try inside when the dog is doing nothing .. I THINK ?

Okay thanks, Polmaise! I tried level 2 again when she was sitting and I could tell she felt it.