Gun Dog Forum

My dog is 13 months old and is very birdy. He was a little hesitant about water at first but now will dive in and swim until he can get to a bird in the water. In the field he will find a bird and hold point like a little soldier (he still breaks on the flush but one thing at a time). But he has ZERO interest in bumpers, balls or any other toy when we are in the field. At home he enthusiastically fetches anything. Once we get outdoors where there are live creatures to chase, he totally ignores the bumper. The problem of course is the na test we are practicing for. A bumper is tossed to test the dog. I suppose we may flunk or pass with a low score the water feature if I have to throw a bird to get him to swim (which is embarrassing but not end of world) but I wondered if anyone has any ideas. I'm starting force fetch this week I think. Would that help or???

Not completely clear...are you using bumpers at the water? The dog doesn't need to retrieve the thrown bumper, but does need to swim at least twice. Unless you are simulating a shot bird in the field, leave the balls, bumpers and toys in the truck. If a bird is needed to encourage swimming, yes, your dog will see a reduction, but not fail.

The force fetch will help. Taking your dog out with others and throwing bumpers for the others and teasing him about it while you restraint him would probably get it done also. Make it exciting and the dog will want in on the fun.

If you're going to FF him, problem solved. Remember though that FF is a two step process, in that it must be done on both land and water.

Amh22 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:50 pm

I'm starting force fetch this week I think. Would that help or???

Well, it depends on ,if you are doing the FF This weekend for the first time or someone else. FF has nothing to do with retrieving a duck or a bird or a bumper. It may be the product but the process may require a re-think.
Just can't help thinking you couldn't find advice for on the many threads of advice on similar ? The search tool is good.

From a hunter’s perspective, I don’t shoot too many bumpers. It sounds like you have a pretty smart dog who is interested in more important things (birds). I have an old GSP that is the same way. He would only enter water when I was about to hook a really nice trout while fly fishing and he had other ideas, or when a bird fell in it. He is quite a good swimmer when he does decide he needs to get in, just not his thing. I am not sure if in his previous life he was not introduced properly, I kind of think not because bumpers don’t do it for him on land or water. When he was young he would head a good clip down a hill to pick up a chukar and bring it to hand with no help from me, but anything like a bumper or ball is a zero.

I am 100% certain, gonehuntin’ or Polmaise in their individual styles could get your dog to happily enter the water in very short order. They both have forgotten more about water retrieves than most of us ever get to know.

As far as your concern for the initial NA test in relation to what I have experienced with my dog. A bit of competition with some fender junky labs, created enough persuasion and he started going after them and picking up a few. Probably not an ideal tactic if steadiness is a concern, but it did build drive and want.

Garrison

Thank you. We did well on the na test. He wouldn’t retrieve a bumper but was great at retrieving a bird from the water and, as you said, I’m hunting birds not bumpers. We passed I think because he did really well in the field, pointed whoa’d even and when he chased down a bird he brought it straight back to me without even being called. I ’m doing force fetch but not sure it is necessary? I’ve been told it’s important. I know nothing and read too much about it. My head is spinning

Amh22 wrote: ↑

Mon May 16, 2022 7:22 pm

Thank you. We did well on the na test. He wouldn’t retrieve a bumper but was great at retrieving a bird from the water and, as you said, I’m hunting birds not bumpers. We passed I think because he did really well in the field, pointed whoa’d even and when he chased down a bird he brought it straight back to me without even being called. I ’m doing force fetch but not sure it is necessary? I’ve been told it’s important. I know nothing and read too much about it. My head is spinning

Sounds like you have a nice dog and are well on your way!! I wouldn't worry too much about the "bumper rejection" when he's in the field, you can't eat bumpers, haha. Too many better things to think about there for the pup. I read an article the other day, and the concept was "seek GOOD ENOUGH" as your level of training. And you get to decide what that is and you may already be there.

I have no desire to start a culture war because I know there are strong feelings about force fetch, but just for information purposes, it might help you to know that there are trainers who are getting a rock solid fetch and hold using a method they call "hold conditioning."

Couple of examples:

https://projectupland.com/hunting-dogs/ ... -of-fetch/

https://dogbonehunter.com/free-videos/1 ... ing-basics

Good luck!

Glad your pup did well! Thanks for sharing.

Garrison