issue that I cant find advice for

Post Reply
Amh22
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:57 am

issue that I cant find advice for

Post by Amh22 » Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:50 pm

My dog is 13 months old and is very birdy. He was a little hesitant about water at first but now will dive in and swim until he can get to a bird in the water. In the field he will find a bird and hold point like a little soldier (he still breaks on the flush but one thing at a time). But he has ZERO interest in bumpers, balls or any other toy when we are in the field. At home he enthusiastically fetches anything. Once we get outdoors where there are live creatures to chase, he totally ignores the bumper. The problem of course is the na test we are practicing for. A bumper is tossed to test the dog. I suppose we may flunk or pass with a low score the water feature if I have to throw a bird to get him to swim (which is embarrassing but not end of world) but I wondered if anyone has any ideas. I'm starting force fetch this week I think. Would that help or???

User avatar
SwitchGrassWPG
Rank: Champion
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:02 pm
Location: NW Oklahoma

Re: issue that I cant find advice for

Post by SwitchGrassWPG » Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:04 am

Not completely clear...are you using bumpers at the water? The dog doesn't need to retrieve the thrown bumper, but does need to swim at least twice. Unless you are simulating a shot bird in the field, leave the balls, bumpers and toys in the truck. If a bird is needed to encourage swimming, yes, your dog will see a reduction, but not fail.
Only thing worse than a bad dog is no dog at all...

http://www.switchgrasswpg.com

weimdogman
Rank: Champion
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:02 am
Location: brookings s.dak.

Re: issue that I cant find advice for

Post by weimdogman » Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:48 am

The force fetch will help. Taking your dog out with others and throwing bumpers for the others and teasing him about it while you restraint him would probably get it done also. Make it exciting and the dog will want in on the fun.

User avatar
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: NE WI.

Re: issue that I cant find advice for

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:57 pm

If you're going to FF him, problem solved. Remember though that FF is a two step process, in that it must be done on both land and water.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

polmaise
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2689
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: issue that I cant find advice for

Post by polmaise » Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:19 pm

Amh22 wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:50 pm
I'm starting force fetch this week I think. Would that help or???
Well, it depends on ,if you are doing the FF This weekend for the first time or someone else. FF has nothing to do with retrieving a duck or a bird or a bumper. It may be the product but the process may require a re-think.
Just can't help thinking you couldn't find advice for on the many threads of advice on similar ? The search tool is good.

User avatar
Garrison
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1213
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:29 pm
Location: Winchester CA

Re: issue that I cant find advice for

Post by Garrison » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:39 pm

From a hunter’s perspective, I don’t shoot too many bumpers. It sounds like you have a pretty smart dog who is interested in more important things (birds). I have an old GSP that is the same way. He would only enter water when I was about to hook a really nice trout while fly fishing and he had other ideas, or when a bird fell in it. He is quite a good swimmer when he does decide he needs to get in, just not his thing. I am not sure if in his previous life he was not introduced properly, I kind of think not because bumpers don’t do it for him on land or water. When he was young he would head a good clip down a hill to pick up a chukar and bring it to hand with no help from me, but anything like a bumper or ball is a zero.

I am 100% certain, gonehuntin’ or Polmaise in their individual styles could get your dog to happily enter the water in very short order. They both have forgotten more about water retrieves than most of us ever get to know.

As far as your concern for the initial NA test in relation to what I have experienced with my dog. A bit of competition with some fender junky labs, created enough persuasion and he started going after them and picking up a few. Probably not an ideal tactic if steadiness is a concern, but it did build drive and want.

Garrison
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
- Mark Twain-

Amh22
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:57 am

Re: issue that I cant find advice for

Post by Amh22 » Mon May 16, 2022 7:22 pm

Thank you. We did well on the na test. He wouldn’t retrieve a bumper but was great at retrieving a bird from the water and, as you said, I’m hunting birds not bumpers. We passed I think because he did really well in the field, pointed whoa’d even and when he chased down a bird he brought it straight back to me without even being called. I ’m doing force fetch but not sure it is necessary? I’ve been told it’s important. I know nothing and read too much about it. My head is spinning

User avatar
AzDoggin
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: AZ desert

Re: issue that I cant find advice for

Post by AzDoggin » Thu May 19, 2022 10:43 am

Amh22 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:22 pm
Thank you. We did well on the na test. He wouldn’t retrieve a bumper but was great at retrieving a bird from the water and, as you said, I’m hunting birds not bumpers. We passed I think because he did really well in the field, pointed whoa’d even and when he chased down a bird he brought it straight back to me without even being called. I ’m doing force fetch but not sure it is necessary? I’ve been told it’s important. I know nothing and read too much about it. My head is spinning
Sounds like you have a nice dog and are well on your way!! I wouldn't worry too much about the "bumper rejection" when he's in the field, you can't eat bumpers, haha. Too many better things to think about there for the pup. I read an article the other day, and the concept was "seek GOOD ENOUGH" as your level of training. And you get to decide what that is and you may already be there.

I have no desire to start a culture war because I know there are strong feelings about force fetch, but just for information purposes, it might help you to know that there are trainers who are getting a rock solid fetch and hold using a method they call "hold conditioning."

Couple of examples:

https://projectupland.com/hunting-dogs/ ... -of-fetch/

https://dogbonehunter.com/free-videos/1 ... ing-basics

Good luck!
Last edited by AzDoggin on Thu May 19, 2022 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Garrison
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1213
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:29 pm
Location: Winchester CA

Re: issue that I cant find advice for

Post by Garrison » Thu May 19, 2022 12:03 pm

Glad your pup did well! Thanks for sharing.

Garrison
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
- Mark Twain-

Post Reply