Training methods using wild birds?

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Ontariofella
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Training methods using wild birds?

Post by Ontariofella » Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:36 pm

Hello everyone. I am new to the forum and I tried searching for this subject but couldn't quite find what I was looking for. My apologies if it was already covered somewhere else.

I am getting my first gundog in about 7 weeks. It is a gsp and I am a bit nervous about training him because all of the training programs/videos I've watched have been using pigeons and pen-raised birds for a lot of the training exercises. I live in northern Ontario, and there is absolutely nowhere for me to buy pigeons without driving 6+ hours. However, I can drive about 10 minutes from my house and be in the middle of perfect grouse country with endless trails and logging roads. If I walk for an hour I can usually see about 5-10 ruffed and spruce grouse.

My question is, will i be able to develop a solid gun dog without pen raised birds? I understand it might be harder to train with wild birds because there are alot of uncontrollable variables. Also, I checked the regulations to confirm the legality of running dogs during closed seasons in Ontario and it is indeed legal, with a special permit I think.

Any input is appreciated. I'm a complete newb so I'd love to hear from someone who has had great success without pigeons.

cjhills
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Re: Training methods using wild birds?

Post by cjhills » Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:21 am

Ontariofella:
Somewhat your training with birds will depend on the goals you want for your dog. Getting your dog to where he will be a productive hunting partner is fairly easy with wild birds. You can just take him out and let him hunt. He will learn he can't catch the birds and should start to point. Where you want to go from there will decide what training you need at that point. I know many pointing dog hunters who shoot every bird they get a chance too shoot, and are happy with their meat dog. If you prefer a steady dog it gets a bit more complicated depending on the dogs breeding and ability, both his and yours. You don't want to shoot to many accidental flushes and none that he flushes on purpose or chases. He should get to the point where he will let you walk in and flush the bird. You can teach him a whoa command and caution him as you go in to flush the bird. You probably won't be able to shoot a wild bird except in season, so for killing birds you should have a few pigeons. But it is not really necessary. Some field trial dogs never have a bird shot over them and still hunt hard and do everything but retrieve.
If you have that many wild birds available it should be easy to get the dog you want......Cj

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Garrison
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Re: Training methods using wild birds?

Post by Garrison » Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:19 pm

Many folks spend considerable time and money either trying to make their pigeons and pen raised birds act wild, or travel long distances to get an opportunity to get their dog on wild birds. All in hopes of developing a better bird dog. There are aspects of training that are far easier and more efficiently accomplished with pigeons and launchers, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done on wild bird contacts. If you work with purpose, are patient, have access to wild birds, have a blank pistol and the standard bird dog accompaniments, you have all the tools you need to make a class dog. In many aspects it is preferable. Wild birds do not allow for bad habits, unless as CJ pointed out, the trainer shoots birds that should not be shot.

I have an abundance of wild birds and can usually get a couple contacts for the dog when we hit the fields, sometimes not. A contactless day is not a day wasted. I have managed to accomplish all the work I previously did with pigeons on wild quail and chukar. I believe in many ways my dog is better for it and my wife is happy to not have pigeons loitering around the house. It does require more boot leather, patience and realistic expectations.

Many first time trainers, want to see results now, and want a finished dog in months rather than years. It’s a good idea to read what the field trial standards are for a puppy, derby and finished dog, as well as the corresponding ages. Many amateurs expect to “train” a dog to do more around birds in the first year than a pro who is “developing” a potential champion. The pro has much higher expectations for the finished product, but they understand what they want/need to see and when they want/need to see it. That process requires years of maturation and development not months of training, which is difficult to convey in pages of a book or minutes of a video.

Garrison
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
- Mark Twain-

Ontariofella
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Re: Training methods using wild birds?

Post by Ontariofella » Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:12 pm

Thank you for the advice from both of you guys, thats really good to hear. I definitely have no plans to rush through this process, and I am not expecting anything super advanced/fancy from this dog. As long as he is obedient and points a couple birds for me once in a while then I'll be happy, especially since I'll finally have a hunting partner and won't be spending so many days alone in the woods haha. I guess I will just expose him to as many wild birds as possible while working on his commands in the offseason, and hopefully it starts to come together in the fall once I can finally get a couple grouse in his mouth... I am so excited!

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