New to the forum, have a pup, need some advice (but of course I do)
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:08 pm
Thanks for the add to the group! While I have not been a member until now, I have ghosted this forum quite a bit in the last 3 months and I appreciate the wisdom here. I'm considering a next step in my training and figured I'd hit up the forum for some advice. Appreciate any help and sorry for the length, just want to make sure I give a good pulse of where I am!
Where things sit with my pup:
----5 month old Pointing Lab
----Heels, Stays, Returns to command/whistle
----Daily walks through a few fields on my property, retrieves bumpers, have hidden bumpers many(many) times with pheasant feathers taped--
quarters/slices the wind, finds and retrieves to hand
----Did let him find and chase a few quail when he was 3 months, mainly to establish/evaluate bird drive and see if skittish. No worries here,
happiest day of his life so far in the field, flapping feathers had no effect on him. Haven't done again, I understood the risk of bad habit but f
figured one day over 3 birds would be ok
----Has got a bit 'sticky' at times, not much though and just starting--more on that below
----Plant bumpers every walk/hunt, responds to 'dead bird' with searching
----Starting hand commands and knows over both ways, still working on back
----Steady to shot at this point--releases on name
----Good bond, listens/trains well, no aggression, no fighting over bumpers, just a good dog (got lucky here!)
----He has spontaneously shown point on other various birds during walk (blue jays or whatever)
----Have introduced e-collar (lightly). Wanted to wait a bit more but we do have a gravel road nearby that is traveled by grain/dump trucks and was
very nervous we would be training off leash and something would happen--so enforced recall training (only had to stimulate twice ever). He
wears collar when we do our hunt/walks, but I don't use it--just making sure no association with non-fun time when it's on
----Gun broke up to 28 gauge over last two weeks (I did .22 at distance, moving closer the two weeks before that, then same with 28 gauge. Doesn't
seem to care at all about the shot, have been within 5 feet when shooting. I throw the bumper--he holds--I shoot--then release with name, he
retrieves to hand.
Ok! That's a lot of info but trying to save questions and give a good idea of how I'm sitting. So here is my next planned step. I have access to Quail and Pheasant (but not pigeons). Quail are farm raised of course but I can get every weekend if I want--and I do not want to try raising/keeping them. Healthy fox/coyote population around and I'm not fighting that all the time. I'll just buy, train and release and/or shoot.
I want to start planting birds. I think this will help with some of the 'sticky' behavior I'm starting to see (yes I change locations but he still knows I'm the source of bumpers most times). I want to get birds in front of him, I feel he's confident and ready. If I grab my 28 gauge and bumper, he does zoomies around the house, knocking things over and driving my wife crazy.
I could use Bird Launchers (hard to find, a bit $$ but doable). However, I have a 16 year old son that wants to help! So I'm trying to figure out how to start steadying using his help. My plan was/is:
1. Dizzy some quail, have him plant so it's not my scent on em'.
2. Have a check cord on him, my son would stay way back on it when he turns to a bird to ensure he doesn't flush
3. I then walk up and flush the bird
4. My son releases when I release my pup to retrieve
So I guess I have two main questions.
1) Am I rushing things? I know it seems fast but "bleep", he's good over shot, confident and I'd love to get some birds in front of him (Again, with son/check cord as safety to not teach bad habits)
2) Is my plan on teaching steady ok? I've read both ways--one is that yeah, use a check cord with woah, flush, shoot and reward is fine. The other argument I've read is that they need to learn birds will fly if they don't steady, which pushes me to wait until I locate launchers and pigeons (which I cannot at this point)--so he learns by getting burned. No wild birds here for nature to teach the lesson either. The Quail I get will get up and fly but I'm not trusting any possible bad habits on the strength and drive of their wing.
Sorry for the length, thanks for the help and thanks for all the help I ghosted so far from the forum!
Where things sit with my pup:
----5 month old Pointing Lab
----Heels, Stays, Returns to command/whistle
----Daily walks through a few fields on my property, retrieves bumpers, have hidden bumpers many(many) times with pheasant feathers taped--
quarters/slices the wind, finds and retrieves to hand
----Did let him find and chase a few quail when he was 3 months, mainly to establish/evaluate bird drive and see if skittish. No worries here,
happiest day of his life so far in the field, flapping feathers had no effect on him. Haven't done again, I understood the risk of bad habit but f
figured one day over 3 birds would be ok
----Has got a bit 'sticky' at times, not much though and just starting--more on that below
----Plant bumpers every walk/hunt, responds to 'dead bird' with searching
----Starting hand commands and knows over both ways, still working on back
----Steady to shot at this point--releases on name
----Good bond, listens/trains well, no aggression, no fighting over bumpers, just a good dog (got lucky here!)
----He has spontaneously shown point on other various birds during walk (blue jays or whatever)
----Have introduced e-collar (lightly). Wanted to wait a bit more but we do have a gravel road nearby that is traveled by grain/dump trucks and was
very nervous we would be training off leash and something would happen--so enforced recall training (only had to stimulate twice ever). He
wears collar when we do our hunt/walks, but I don't use it--just making sure no association with non-fun time when it's on
----Gun broke up to 28 gauge over last two weeks (I did .22 at distance, moving closer the two weeks before that, then same with 28 gauge. Doesn't
seem to care at all about the shot, have been within 5 feet when shooting. I throw the bumper--he holds--I shoot--then release with name, he
retrieves to hand.
Ok! That's a lot of info but trying to save questions and give a good idea of how I'm sitting. So here is my next planned step. I have access to Quail and Pheasant (but not pigeons). Quail are farm raised of course but I can get every weekend if I want--and I do not want to try raising/keeping them. Healthy fox/coyote population around and I'm not fighting that all the time. I'll just buy, train and release and/or shoot.
I want to start planting birds. I think this will help with some of the 'sticky' behavior I'm starting to see (yes I change locations but he still knows I'm the source of bumpers most times). I want to get birds in front of him, I feel he's confident and ready. If I grab my 28 gauge and bumper, he does zoomies around the house, knocking things over and driving my wife crazy.
I could use Bird Launchers (hard to find, a bit $$ but doable). However, I have a 16 year old son that wants to help! So I'm trying to figure out how to start steadying using his help. My plan was/is:
1. Dizzy some quail, have him plant so it's not my scent on em'.
2. Have a check cord on him, my son would stay way back on it when he turns to a bird to ensure he doesn't flush
3. I then walk up and flush the bird
4. My son releases when I release my pup to retrieve
So I guess I have two main questions.
1) Am I rushing things? I know it seems fast but "bleep", he's good over shot, confident and I'd love to get some birds in front of him (Again, with son/check cord as safety to not teach bad habits)
2) Is my plan on teaching steady ok? I've read both ways--one is that yeah, use a check cord with woah, flush, shoot and reward is fine. The other argument I've read is that they need to learn birds will fly if they don't steady, which pushes me to wait until I locate launchers and pigeons (which I cannot at this point)--so he learns by getting burned. No wild birds here for nature to teach the lesson either. The Quail I get will get up and fly but I'm not trusting any possible bad habits on the strength and drive of their wing.
Sorry for the length, thanks for the help and thanks for all the help I ghosted so far from the forum!