New to the forum, have a pup, need some advice (but of course I do)

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ageofegos
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:09 am

New to the forum, have a pup, need some advice (but of course I do)

Post by ageofegos » Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:08 pm

Thanks for the add to the group! While I have not been a member until now, I have ghosted this forum quite a bit in the last 3 months and I appreciate the wisdom here. I'm considering a next step in my training and figured I'd hit up the forum for some advice. Appreciate any help and sorry for the length, just want to make sure I give a good pulse of where I am!

Where things sit with my pup:
----5 month old Pointing Lab
----Heels, Stays, Returns to command/whistle
----Daily walks through a few fields on my property, retrieves bumpers, have hidden bumpers many(many) times with pheasant feathers taped--
quarters/slices the wind, finds and retrieves to hand
----Did let him find and chase a few quail when he was 3 months, mainly to establish/evaluate bird drive and see if skittish. No worries here,
happiest day of his life so far in the field, flapping feathers had no effect on him. Haven't done again, I understood the risk of bad habit but f
figured one day over 3 birds would be ok
----Has got a bit 'sticky' at times, not much though and just starting--more on that below
----Plant bumpers every walk/hunt, responds to 'dead bird' with searching
----Starting hand commands and knows over both ways, still working on back
----Steady to shot at this point--releases on name
----Good bond, listens/trains well, no aggression, no fighting over bumpers, just a good dog (got lucky here!)
----He has spontaneously shown point on other various birds during walk (blue jays or whatever)
----Have introduced e-collar (lightly). Wanted to wait a bit more but we do have a gravel road nearby that is traveled by grain/dump trucks and was
very nervous we would be training off leash and something would happen--so enforced recall training (only had to stimulate twice ever). He
wears collar when we do our hunt/walks, but I don't use it--just making sure no association with non-fun time when it's on
----Gun broke up to 28 gauge over last two weeks (I did .22 at distance, moving closer the two weeks before that, then same with 28 gauge. Doesn't
seem to care at all about the shot, have been within 5 feet when shooting. I throw the bumper--he holds--I shoot--then release with name, he
retrieves to hand.

Ok! That's a lot of info but trying to save questions and give a good idea of how I'm sitting. So here is my next planned step. I have access to Quail and Pheasant (but not pigeons). Quail are farm raised of course but I can get every weekend if I want--and I do not want to try raising/keeping them. Healthy fox/coyote population around and I'm not fighting that all the time. I'll just buy, train and release and/or shoot.

I want to start planting birds. I think this will help with some of the 'sticky' behavior I'm starting to see (yes I change locations but he still knows I'm the source of bumpers most times). I want to get birds in front of him, I feel he's confident and ready. If I grab my 28 gauge and bumper, he does zoomies around the house, knocking things over and driving my wife crazy.

I could use Bird Launchers (hard to find, a bit $$ but doable). However, I have a 16 year old son that wants to help! So I'm trying to figure out how to start steadying using his help. My plan was/is:

1. Dizzy some quail, have him plant so it's not my scent on em'.
2. Have a check cord on him, my son would stay way back on it when he turns to a bird to ensure he doesn't flush
3. I then walk up and flush the bird
4. My son releases when I release my pup to retrieve

So I guess I have two main questions.

1) Am I rushing things? I know it seems fast but "bleep", he's good over shot, confident and I'd love to get some birds in front of him (Again, with son/check cord as safety to not teach bad habits)

2) Is my plan on teaching steady ok? I've read both ways--one is that yeah, use a check cord with woah, flush, shoot and reward is fine. The other argument I've read is that they need to learn birds will fly if they don't steady, which pushes me to wait until I locate launchers and pigeons (which I cannot at this point)--so he learns by getting burned. No wild birds here for nature to teach the lesson either. The Quail I get will get up and fly but I'm not trusting any possible bad habits on the strength and drive of their wing.


Sorry for the length, thanks for the help and thanks for all the help I ghosted so far from the forum!

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deseeker
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1186
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Blair, Nebraska

Re: New to the forum, have a pup, need some advice (but of course I do)

Post by deseeker » Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:29 pm

Welcome to the forum. From what I have read, you are getting a lot done with your lab. I'm a pure pointing dog guy, so I'm going to let the lab people on here answer your questions--but reading your info so far, it sounds like you are trying to train your pointing/flushing dog to be steady to wing/shot/fall like you would with a pointing breed?? I'll let the lab people answer the rest of the way. Good luck with your pup. Sounds like you are puting in a lot of time with him and that is what it takes to make a good bird dog. :D

ageofegos
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:09 am

Re: New to the forum, have a pup, need some advice (but of course I do)

Post by ageofegos » Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:38 pm

deseeker wrote:
Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:29 pm
Welcome to the forum. From what I have read, you are getting a lot done with your lab. I'm a pure pointing dog guy, so I'm going to let the lab people on here answer your questions--but reading your info so far, it sounds like you are trying to train your pointing/flushing dog to be steady to wing/shot/fall like you would with a pointing breed?? I'll let the lab people answer the rest of the way. Good luck with your pup. Sounds like you are puting in a lot of time with him and that is what it takes to make a good bird dog. :D
Hey appreciate it! Yeah, he's a pointing lab--he is steady to a bumper toss/gunfire before I verbally release him. He occasionally throws a point during a walk around the property if there is a small covey of birds but I have not worked Woah/Steadiness on a live bird yet (I think I might this weekend unless someone tells me it's a bad idea).

As far as steady to wing/shot/fall, to be honest at first I was going to do just steady to shot--but then read a good argument on why not just train all the way to fall, made sense--and he seems to have taken to it ok.

I did tease him with a fishing line/pheasant wing when he was a wee 8 week lad and he threw point after a couple back and forths, so he definitely has the gene for it. Yeah I know--I don't train with that but wanted to get a good photo when he was a baby, we put the fishing rod away after that one photo :).

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