Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

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darmento
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Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by darmento » Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:56 am

I have a unique situation that I would like some advice on.... I searched the Forum but did not find any similar posts, so I am posting this today....

I have a 4 year old Braque Francais (French Pointer) that I have trained myself. I carefully took him through the prescribed method of gun training and he did well. I used the cap pistol during feeding. Then I trained him out in the field with small caliber guns, then worked up to a 20 gauge. He seemed fine with the sound of gun fire. I took him out hunting numerous times, and he did fine.

He is an excellent hunter. He has a great nose, he instinctively points and holds point, and he retrieves to hand.

The one issue that I have is that he gets very skittish when there are other hunters with me. There is something about multiple guns going off that just have a negative effect on him. He is totally great when I take him out one-on-one, but for some reason he cowers after a while when I hunt with my friends. He starts hanging by my side, and eventually he just goes over to the truck and lays down.

It seems to me that when he is in control of the whole process (he points, I flush and shoot, he retrieves) he does great, but when he is not in control of the process (birds flushing that he did not point, guns going off that he was not ready for) he gets scared.

So this dog is NOT gun-shy when I hunt with him one-on-one, but he is definitely shy of hunting with multiple guns.

Has any other forum members ever experienced this? and is there any solution? I hate the fact that he is bold and happy and great in the field when it is just the two of us, but scared when there are other people involved. I know he wants to hunt with other people, but something is holding him back.

Right now, I am just taking him out one-on-one a lot, and training him with a lot of birds, and hoping that exposure to lots of birds and lots of shots will eventually cure him.

If anyone has a method of curing this issue, I would be grateful, and so would my dog!! Thanks in advance for any advice....

mask
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by mask » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:37 am

I have no cure. I have a few simple rules for people that hunt with me that may help your dog.1 No birds are shot that are not pointed. 2 no more than two people shooting at once and for your dog one is better. I rarely hunt with more than one person. So that brings us to number 3, if you hunt with people with dogs go in different directions. It is easy to take turns shooting and is actually fun. Your hunting group will understand what your dog is going through and should be more than happy to help.

oregon woodsmoke
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by oregon woodsmoke » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:42 pm

Reduce the number of hunters. He hunts with you, now start him hunting with just one other besides you. After he gets accustomed to two hunters, gradually increase the numbers.

With just two of you, you should be able to agree upon who gets to shoot, so that there are not multiple guns blasting.

Build him up slowly. Let the dog set the pace.

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Sharon
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by Sharon » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:47 pm

Exactly. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:17 pm

First, is he shy around groups of people WITHOUT guns, or just shy around groups that shoot? If no guns are involved will he go up to members of the group to be petted?
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by polmaise » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:34 am

darmento wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:56 am
I have a unique situation that I would like some advice on.... I searched the Forum but did not find any similar posts, so I am posting this today....

I have a 4 year old Braque Francais (French Pointer) that I have trained myself. I carefully took him through the prescribed method of gun training and he did well. I used the cap pistol during feeding.
Personally , You don't have a unique situation .I have had several clients with dogs that 'Freak out' or 'Shut down' on shoot days.
The age of the dogs ranged from 1 year to 8.
.........
Can some 'learned' members on here please tell me this approved program of Gundog training advocated by firing a cap gun at feeding. Thanks
ps..It has nothing to do with the OP's dog , just curious as to ...Why?
Happy New Year.
pps. Gonehuntin, would be more to the mark , based on the evidence presented (imho) .

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Sharon
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by Sharon » Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:54 pm

polmaise wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:34 am
darmento wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:56 am
I have a unique situation that I would like some advice on.... I searched the Forum but did not find any similar posts, so I am posting this today....

I have a 4 year old Braque Francais (French Pointer) that I have trained myself. I carefully took him through the prescribed method of gun training and he did well. I used the cap pistol during feeding.
Personally , You don't have a unique situation .I have had several clients with dogs that 'Freak out' or 'Shut down' on shoot days.
The age of the dogs ranged from 1 year to 8.
.........
Can some 'learned' members on here please tell me this approved program of Gundog training advocated by firing a cap gun at feeding. Thanks
ps..It has nothing to do with the OP's dog , just curious as to ...Why?
Happy New Year.
pps. Gonehuntin, would be more to the mark , based on the evidence presented (imho) .
Not something I would ever do. What is the point other than to ruin the dog's dinner. :)

I think it comes from firing a gun in the field when the dog is all excited about a bird find, so doesn't let the gun bother him. ( A good way to introduce the gun.) So they think when excited about eating he won't let the gun bother him. Not something I would do.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

polmaise
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by polmaise » Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:51 pm

Not a good plan.
Still not a good way to introduce the gun.
It has no relevance in context. The dog is eating it's food.
Last edited by polmaise on Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

darmento
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by darmento » Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:12 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I heard about the cap gun at dinner time from a dog training book. It is probably bad advice and I don't do it any more.

The advice on building up slowly with one other person is great. Also, limiting the shots fired is a great idea. I will try all this out.

Thanks again for the great advice!!

darmento
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by darmento » Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:14 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:17 pm
First, is he shy around groups of people WITHOUT guns, or just shy around groups that shoot? If no guns are involved will he go up to members of the group to be petted?
He is a little timid around strangers, but once he gets to know people he is super affectionate. thx

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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by cjhills » Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:23 pm

I too, have seen a number of dogs that are timid when multiple guns go off. limit the number of shots for a while.
I think the theory behind firing a blank at feeding time is noise conditioning I used to do it until I figured out it had no value.......Cj

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Shy With Multiple Hunters/Guns

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:59 pm

So it sounds like there are possibly two things going on here and they are related. Tough to say without seeing the dog, but here goes. First, he is shy around strangers. The fact that he is shy also contributes to an aversion to loud and sudden noise. I had a field trial dog like this once and I handled the problems a step at a time. First, I would take him to malls, baseball games, anywhere people gathered and ask them to pet him. Sometimes I'd give them treats to give him. It took a while, but pretty soon he began accepting people and even looking forward to these jaunts. When he was comfortable with people, we started working on the noise acceptance. We would always let him associate with people first, then walk in a filed and shoot birds. I started with one person and built up to four people. Pretty soon he was fine. He was never completely cured and the owner had to be careful, but we could field trial him and did get points on him.

I will also tell you that I feel that many times a dog like this is NOT a mentally stable dog. You just have have to work through the problems IF IN FACT THEY EVEN EXIST. Might be, you're just reading the dog wrong.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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