Dog chasing running birds

Post Reply
ex28
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:43 pm

Dog chasing running birds

Post by ex28 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:59 pm

I have a GSP going into his 2nd season pheasant hunting and it's impossible to get him to stop chasing a running pheasant. I know young dogs will bump birds but I don't want him chasing a bird into a highway if we are near one. The last thing I want to do is use the Ecollar when he's on birds and he listens pretty well overall... Unless he's on a bird then all bets are off.

Is this something I should be patient with and let him figure it out or do I need to intervene?

weimdogman
Rank: Champion
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:02 am
Location: brookings s.dak.

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by weimdogman » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:33 pm

You teach whoa with or without the collar, I would use the collar , and then use whoa to stop him on birds.
Done correctly the bird isn't the cause for the correction,movement is.

birddogger2
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
Location: Lower slower Delaware

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by birddogger2 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:23 pm

Ricwoodard -

Failure to obey a known command is an obedience failure. Period. Disobedience around birds is still disobedience and must not be tolerated.

If I holler "whoa" to one of my dogs...they stop. Why? Because they know that if they do not stop and stop RIGHT NOW...their whole world comes crashing down around them. Whoa means stop and grow roots. It matters not if the dog is chasing birds, deer, rabbits...whatever. Whoa means stop and stand...every time...no matter what. I have big running dogs and where I hunt and train there are roads everywhere. They gotta stop or they will be roadkill.

If you have introduced the command properly and enforced the command properly, the dog will understand that it is being disobedient and can fully expect to be disciplined for it. You have allowed the dog to disobey a known command. What you allow...you encourage. You need to fix your mistake. If you need to go back to the yard and re-establish the command as a absolute must do...every time...you need to do that first.

If it were my dog, I would give the verbal command ONCE...just once and if the dog did not slam on the brakes I would issue a low intensity nick. When the dog does not stop in response to the nick(and I would bet that, if a bird is involved, he won't BTW) I would dial the collar almost all the the way up and give the dog a full length, full intensity, high hard one. THAT should get his attention and cause him to stop. Then I would walk to the dog at a normal pace, saying nothing. When I got to the dog I would take it by the collar and walk off a few paces, let go the collar and command "whoa" again but in a "normal " voice and give another single... low intensity nick.

If you do that, just like that, I'll bet real money the dog will stop instantly. Then you should reach down, pat the dog once on the flank and verbally give him a single "good dog" and then go on about the business of the hunt or training session. Taking the dog to a set up bird in a launcher or tossing a pigeon for him right after the application of the discipline, might help reinforce the proper behavior.

You may have to repeat this a time or two, depending on how long the dog has been getting away with this behavior...but the dog will come to understand that blowing off whoa command has seriously unpleasant consequences...and he will choose to avoid the unpleasantness.

RayG

averageguy
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 970
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:07 am

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by averageguy » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:55 pm

Ricwoodard,

None of us know enough about your dog, its temperament, experience and training to advise you beyond urging you to undertake a complete program to teach the Whoa command. The Perfection Kennel DVDs have a very effective and easily understood approach to teaching the Whoa command and then combining it with training birds to teach the dog that Whoa means Whoa.

There is no way I would start hammering my young dog with ecollar while on wild birds without having trained the command fully and re-enforced it while the dog is worked on flown pigeons first and pointed pigeons second. Which is the progression in their program. Then you will be ready to use the command while on wild birds with a low risk of the dog mis-interpreting the command and correction.

birddogger2
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
Location: Lower slower Delaware

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by birddogger2 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:04 pm

Ricwoodard -

Averageguy just reiterated what I said to begin with, which is to assure that the whoa command is very firmly in place in your dog's mind. I agree that is absolutely key to the situation. The dog HAS to understand that the whoa command is not optional under any circumstance.

The Perfection Kennel training methods probably work just fine, as do several other training methods and approaches. There are a bunch of ways to get from here to there with a bird dog.

I think we can all agree that a dog chasing after running pheasants is pretty useless. The dog will almost always get too close, or the birds will run out of cover... and either way, flush...well out of range.

Once you stop the dog, you might be better off handling the dog perpendicular to the likely path of the running birds and then sending the dog on a line to a point (hopefully) beyond where the bird has run to and then calling the dog back in to you. Birds will often stop running and hole up in some cover if they are not being actively followed. The goal of the exercise would be to "trap"' the bird between you and the dog which will sometimes cause the bird to sit...especially if the dog comes upon it suddenly. Even if the bird flushes wild, you will be closer to the action, and the bird might even flush away from the dog and back toward you.


I have seen a (very) few dogs who actually would watch and listen for the running bird and then take off to outflank it and pin it between themselves and the hunters. I know of one instance where a momma dog taught that particular skill to one of her offspring. I personally was never successful in getting a dog to do it on their own, but I had limited access to wild running pheasants.

I have fond memories of a western Kentucky quail dog that learned to handle running eastern ringnecks. She would scent the bird and stalk a bit, then run to one side, turn and run up a good way, duck in and scent, and then go back out run further and repeat the duck in and scent until she was ahead of the bird and then would move in and let the bird run into her. She would occasionally stand up on her hind legs to look and listen as she moved forward. It didn't always work, but when it did...it was flat out awesome. She was an amazing dog. I wish she was mine.

If your dog could figure out how to out run and outflank a running bird...that would be pretty special.

RayG

ex28
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:43 pm

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by ex28 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:26 pm

Thanks for the advice. It makes sense and sounds like I have a path forward.

Thanks again

reba
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:50 am
Location: Central Coast of CA

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by reba » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:40 am

I use the TONE button on my controller for the WHOA command along with the verbal WHOA.

I use it several times right out of the truck before there are any birds, just as a little reminder that I am in control.

User avatar
RatDog
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:01 pm
Location: The Last Best Place

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by RatDog » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:59 pm

My grandfather refuses to hunt pheasants with pointing dogs due to the running being confusing or hard on the dog. He is also fond of disparaging them as “getting up like a big balloon that any darn fool can hit”. He’s from the East Coast and will only hunt grouse, woodcock and quail. I have to say that he’s not wrong in my limited experience; they are a lot easier to hit than some other birds and the running has caused us some problems. That being said, I still miss enough that I’m pleased when I stone one and they hold tight often enough to make it a worthwhile pursuit IMHO.

I haven’t had the experience of them running away from the dog. If they stick around that long they have always flushed. What happens to me a lot is as soon as we get close to good cover a bunch will run out the back of the bushes or cattails and out of the draw or down it. Times like those I really wish I didn’t always hunt alone. When that happens best case is that there are some stragglers that didn’t get the memo and cooperate. Worst case they’re all gone and the poor dog is stuck correctly pointing the scent of where they just were and I am stuck feeling bad for my buddy.

I think if I had a dog that figured out how to identify a running bird, outrun and then flank it I would give the dog the shotgun as well as power of attorney over my affairs and move into the kennel


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

averageguy
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 970
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:07 am

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by averageguy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:17 pm

My Spud dog has hunted wild roosters in 4 states annually every year of his life (will be 5 states this season Good Lord Willing) and he learned to handle them at a young age. When I took him further west and we hunted Huns and Chukars they ran like heck too. When I hunted him in Texas those Bobwhites ran constantly.

What he learned on Roosters has carried over very well to his performance on those running birds.

Roosters make up for being a bigger target by flushing at longer ranges as the season goes on, going out low and straight away (even when pointed), and being very hardy to bring down cleanly and tenacious at escaping when they are not dead if a dog is not well schooled in tracking and determination.
Last edited by averageguy on Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mask
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 632
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Idaho

Re: Dog chasing running birds

Post by mask » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:27 pm

I don't use the whoa command if the dog is trained to stand until released you don't need whoa. You might consider going back to the basics and reinforce stand until you release.

Post Reply