De-Snaking

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Meskousing
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De-Snaking

Post by Meskousing » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:50 pm

I live in northern Wisconsin and don't have any poisonous snakes. In September I'll be going to hunt sage grouse in eastern Montana, where as I understand it, there are rattlesnakes. Rumor has it that rattlesnakes are bad for bird dogs. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to de-snake a dog while living in an area without poisonous snakes as test subjects? Can I put out a FB ad to borrow someone's pet snake?

Thank you in advance for advice and suggestions.

fishvik
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by fishvik » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:07 am

I would not borrow a poisonous snake. Unless you have extensive experience with snakes a poisonous when can be very hazardous to both you and your dog. Non-venomous snakes have some value in they can be used to teach dogs to avoid all snakes by sight but not necessarily by smell. I have lived in the west for the last 50 years hunting birds with dogs. I have only come across on venomous snake in that time hunting and that was in western Kansas.

polmaise
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by polmaise » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:27 am

Not an expert on Snakes ...
I think Rattlesnakes make a noise like a rattle though?
I didn't know snakes of different types had different scent though (thanks for that fishvik) Every day is a school day.
.....
Is 'Snake Oil' a good thing to use for training ?

setterpoint
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by setterpoint » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:22 am

should be able to buy snake scent put some on a rag and use an ecollar on dog shouldnt take long, finding the snake scent might be a problem though

Meskousing
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by Meskousing » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:54 pm

Any ideas on where I get snake scent? I've never seen it for sale.

SOrry, my dry sense of humor about borrowing someone's rattler didn't translate well to the typed word.

Fishvick, thanks for the perspective on the relative infrequent likelihood of encountering a rattlesnake. Once upon a time, I biked through Kansas and there were dead rattlers everywhere. THey would slither onto the asphalt at night and get run over while soaking up the heat.

averageguy
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by averageguy » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:42 am

Every summer I travel West to a Snake Breaking Clinic which uses live Rattlesnakes. It is a 2 day trip where I get to run my dogs on wild birds the evening I arrive and the morning the next day when we do the clinic. I am going to one in SD the first Weekend in August. I have seen clinics currently offered in OK, TX, ID, CO and SD that come to mind quickly. Probably some openings still in the one I am attending. Send me a PM if you are interested.

The Breaking Clinics teach the dog to avoid all three - scent, sound and sight of a rattlesnake. Dogs I have put through the clinic more than once go the other way the minute they detect any of those 3, in which case we just lead the dog out and do nothing further in that session.

fishvik
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by fishvik » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:05 pm

polmaise wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:27 am
Not an expert on Snakes ...
I think Rattlesnakes make a noise like a rattle though?
I didn't know snakes of different types had different scent though (thanks for that fishvik) Every day is a school day.
.....
Is 'Snake Oil' a good thing to use for training ?
Actually, rattlesnakes don't always buzz when they are disturbed. This may even be a hereditary trait. There is some belief now that this is a trait that is passed down. One theory is the "rattleless rattlesnake" is increasing because while the rattle used to be a defense to let thing know to leave it alone it has also brought on a load of bird shot or the business end of a shovel. Thus the inability to pass down the rattling trait. As for snake oil, it's good for what ails you! :D

cjhills
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by cjhills » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:41 pm

By mid September, in Northern Montana' the Rattle snakes Are denned up. Never seen or heard one in 50 years of hunting in the North east region. Nevr had a dog get bit or heard of any body that did.
Don't know about the south............Cj

averageguy
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by averageguy » Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:04 pm

Dogs commonly get bit in SD in September. Avoiding the prairie dog towns is crucial and lowers the odds considerably.

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Sharon
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by Sharon » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:45 pm

Interesting read about snakes. Fortunately here in Ontario we only have one poisonous snake which is confined to a small area. Your dog is more likely to be taken down by a coyote here.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

Mosby
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by Mosby » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:10 pm

averageguy wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:42 am
Every summer I travel West to a Snake Breaking Clinic which uses live Rattlesnakes. It is a 2 day trip where I get to run my dogs on wild birds the evening I arrive and the morning the next day when we do the clinic. I am going to one in SD the first Weekend in August. I have seen clinics currently offered in OK, TX, ID, CO and SD that come to mind quickly. Probably some openings still in the one I am attending. Send me a PM if you are interested.

The Breaking Clinics teach the dog to avoid all three - scent, sound and sight of a rattlesnake. Dogs I have put through the clinic more than once go the other way the minute they detect any of those 3, in which case we just lead the dog out and do nothing further in that session.
I am getting a couple of new pups next year and want to get them snake avoidance training. We live in Arkansas on a lake and frequently deal with pigmy rattlesnakes, copperheads and water moccasins. Not much you can do with water moccasins except don't let the dogs run loose when Its warm out, keep them away from the water and look for them.

I will be taking the pups to South Dakota for training and hunting and plan on trying to find a avoidance clinic next year.

Is there a town, club or a group that sponsors an annual training class? I did some quick research but I didn't find any reference to current or future clinics in South Dakota.

I contacted one of the Arizona companies that does classes to see if they normally go to Oklahoma or South Dakota and requested information on it, if they do. I will post what I find out.

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oldbeek
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by oldbeek » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:46 pm

I live on the Mojave desert and. we have lots of Mojave Green rattle snakes here. They are the most deadly snake in the us. Their venom attacks the nervous system. My dog has been snake broke 4 times. I tune her up every year. I had 8 of them in my yard in one year. We killed 2 on opening day last year. The dog lets us know they are around. By the way I have a friend that does have rattlers. Their scent diminishes when in captivity for some reason, so snake breakers like fresh caught snakes.

Mosby
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Re: De-Snaking

Post by Mosby » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:51 pm

Those Mojave's are bad news. There venom is worse than some of the snakes in Australia.

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