Deer chasing

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birds
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Deer chasing

Post by birds » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:51 pm

Hello Again -
My 5 month old setter pup chased a deer this afternoon. He has been wearing his unarmed e collar into the field for a while, but he has not been introduced to any electricity yet - I was going to wait till the oft recommended 6 month point. Should I stay the 6 month course before gradually introducing him to it or should I light him up good and nip the deer chasing in the bud right away even though he has never been even lightly zapped and is only 5 months old?
He is what I would guess many of you would call a "softer" dog and is otherwise pretty well behaved for a youngster.
Thanks in advance - birds

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bobman
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by bobman » Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:59 pm

Turn the collar on, keep your mouth shut and shock the dog hard when it’s hot after the deer, you want to make the dog think the deer shocked him As soon as he breaks off the chase turn off the stim

Trash breaking has little to nothing to do with future training, just shut up when you do it so the dog doesn’t associate the shock with you
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by shags » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:31 pm

^^^^ And when he runs back to you, behave like you have no idea that anything has happened. Just go on with your day.

birddogger2
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by birddogger2 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:19 pm

That is a big YUP and another big YUP on each of the first two posts.

Git 'er done...do not wait.

RayG

mask
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by mask » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:45 pm

I will go against the grain a little. I don't think a 5 month old puppy needs to be lit up. Most pups will chase anything and most well bred pups will quit on their own after they what they are hunting for ie birds. If the dog persists at a year old then its time to stop this behavior.

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by shags » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:50 am

^^^^ Except if they get on a road and get hit by a car. Or if the dog runs past some guy in a deer stand who is POed because he just lost a shot. Or if the dog winds up in someone's back yard and they call animal control. Or if the dog hits a coyote snare. Or if the dog gets lost and you get to spend some really bad hours searching and hoping.

Better a few seconds of zap than a lot of regret.

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by Pedro » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:40 am

birddogger2 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:19 pm
That is a big YUP and another big YUP on each of the first two posts.

Git 'er done...do not wait.

RayG

YUP for me too. Do it early and you don't have to worry about it later.

birds
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by birds » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:06 pm

So I have a Garmin 550 - do I use the highest lightning strike available to me?
Thanks!

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Sharon
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by Sharon » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:21 pm

Personally I think that would be abusive. I would have figured out in the back yard what level the dog reacts to and then boost it a couple levels for trash breaking. jmo
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by polmaise » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:33 pm

Does the Garmin 550 have a common sense button ?

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by cjhills » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:40 pm

no way I would light up a five month old pup with the highest level on a Garmin 550, for chasing a deer. First the deer will out run a young pup very quickly and the pup will give up. Second if you think the pup don't know who controls the collar you are sadly mistaken. You may have a big problem getting the dog over the collar abuse. There is always a chance of the dog getting into a bad situation, but at five months you should have some means of control other than e collar or you are headed for serious issues .....Cj
Polmaise;
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by birddogger2 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:13 pm

birds wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:06 pm
So I have a Garmin 550 - do I use the highest lightning strike available to me?
Thanks!

Given the circumstances, I would not go immediately to the highest setting. You want to startle and frighten the dog...not turn it inside out. I actually prefer to use the e-collar for trashbreaking BEFORE the dog is collar conditioned. I think it has a more lasting effect, due to the "surprise" factor, especially with a young, impressionable puppy, and yes a five to six month old ...IS a puppy.

If the 550 has six intensity settings, like my old TriTronics, I think I would try a momentary 3 and keep hitting the button as fast as you can. If a few seconds of momentary 3's does not get the dog to break off and come running back to you... I would be quite surprised. If it does not break off, I would suggest going to continuous 3 or 4, but no higher.

The best thing I can tell you is to turn the collar on, dial up the setting and then place the probes on the back of your hand and hit the stim button. Then you will have a pretty good idea of what the dog will be experiencing

FWIW, 1 of 6 on my Tritronics, I can barely feel. 2 of 6 I can feel and it is somewhere around a skeeter bite. It stings just a bit. 3 of 6 stings and is borderline painful. 4 of 6 flat out smarts. 5 and 6 just plain HURT.

When I do the same exercise, but with the probes on my neck instead of the back of my hand... I won't go past 3. You won't either, I suspect.

Try it... that is the only way you will really know. I did. You will figure out what your dog needs and what it doesn't.

Every e-collar is different. Some are small increments of stim for the first couple or three levels, but then a large jump in stim at the next level. A responsible trainer/owner will want to know just how much stim is being delivered at each setting. I have done the experiment on myself, first... every time I have had to buy a new e-collar, just so I know.

RayG

PS - No it ain't something I look forward to doing. I don't consider getting shocked any sort of fun.

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by cjhills » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:50 pm

mask wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:45 pm
I will go against the grain a little. I don't think a 5 month old puppy needs to be lit up. Most pups will chase anything and most well bred pups will quit on their own after they what they are hunting for ie birds. If the dog persists at a year old then its time to stop this behavior.
This is a little more sensible approach. It is just plain abuse to trash break a 5 month old puppy.
I definitely have a problem with experts giving beginners advice that is likely to harm their dog.
Would you fry him for chasing a bird? All of the same things could happen to him in that scenario.
You need more yard training and less collar.....Cj

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by polmaise » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:21 pm

birds wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:51 pm
Hello Again -
My 5 month old setter pup chased a deer this afternoon. He has been wearing his unarmed e collar into the field for a while, but he has not been introduced to any electricity yet - I was going to wait till the oft recommended 6 month point. Should I stay the 6 month course before gradually introducing him to it or should I light him up good and nip the deer chasing in the bud right away even though he has never been even lightly zapped and is only 5 months old?
He is what I would guess many of you would call a "softer" dog and is otherwise pretty well behaved for a youngster.
Thanks in advance - birds
The pup never done anything wrong ,it just didn't do it right. (according to your book) .
"recommended 6 month point" ?..like by who ? ..Is that 5 months and 4 weeks or 5 months and 3 weeks ,and what months does it include ..February ..in this recommendation? .. ... any body with a 5 month any breed with the intention of field work would or should have enough comms like a stop whistle or at the very least a re-call ...and at least a pup in the kitchen knows 'No' ! ..So who allowed this situation where the pup had the opportunity to see/chase the deer ? ...the guy with the recommendation on age or someone else who reads them books rather than dogs ?
It is also Abundantly clear to 'Me' ..FROM THE WORDS posted that perhaps some folk should go on a course on how to use an e-collar before they start pressing any buttons (says I from across the pond where the perception is that all things fluffy and treats are used ) .."Trash breaking" IS used , and it IS effective ..A sheep is a Deer my dear .. The dog don't know that ....Yet (imo) ,based on the intel . Reckon we ain't heard 'what you actually done ' ????? ..other than post what a scenario would be ? .....Anyone I know that knows dogs (any breed) will chase anything that moves..until it is trained not to . And yes it can be done with a 5 month old pup ...If it doesn't know any better .

birds
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by birds » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:28 pm

Geez...

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bobman
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by bobman » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:08 am

You want the pup to think deer shoot lightning out of them, do it once hard and get it over with.

And a pup that has been wearing a dormant collar will not know you had anything to do with it, as long as you don’t open your mouth.

I’ve done this to every pup I’ve had for the last 30 years ( at least 40 dogs) none of them had any bad lasting effects but everyone of them decided they don’t want to chase deer

I’m not heavy handed and rarely turn a collar up beyond the tone function on my dogs. I can do this because they all know I will if they don’t obey.
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by polmaise » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:45 am

That comes across as contradictory 'Bobman' .
If your dogs know that you will if they don't obey .
I thought you first said "You want the pup to think that the deer shot lightning out of them"
:)

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bobman
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Re: Deer chasing

Post by bobman » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:47 pm

No maybe I’m not doing a good job of explaining

the OP stated his dog has worn the collar for some time without it being energized. That fact makes this the perfect opportunity to do the trash breaking because his dog doesn’t understand the collar and will connect the shock only with the deer ( if he keeps quiet when he does this).


My dogs are all collar conditioned after which you are correct, they know the correction comes from me

This is why I stated ecollar training and trash breaking are different things. Avoidance training needs to be harsh and not given with a verbal command

I do agree dogs will figure out where the correction comes from when you are training commands, that training will use the lowest possible stim to get the dog to comply

During training the ecollar is simply a form of a check cord, the beauty of the ecollar is you can give an instant correction so the dogs associate the correction with the mistake they made

Used properly ecollars are very humane and shorten the dogs learning curve my dogs run up to me with their tails wagging happy when I grab the collars off the chargers. They wouldn’t do that if they feared them.

Hope that clears it up I’m typing on a phone ugh

Thanks
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Re: Deer chasing

Post by RatDog » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:43 am

My grandfather likes to tell a story about a dog of his that took off grouse hunting in northern Michigan. He called the local radio station and asked them to say something about the lost dog. He called back later and a farmer had called in that he had the dog. My grandfather went to the farm and there was the dog looking perfectly happy. He told the old farmer what had happened and the farmer asked if he had tried to break the dog of the habit with a barrel? My grandfather asked what he meant and he replied, “You take some really rancid deer parts from road kill, put em’ in the barrel with the dog, shut the lid and roll it down a hill.”

“Really?! Does that cure them of chasing deer?”

“No, but it sure does cure them of barrels!”




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Re: Deer chasing

Post by setterpoint » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:02 pm

try it on yourself first when you can fill the collar turn it up some not all the way but you want to know the dog is getting a pretty good jolt
as said don't say nothing or act anyway differant, if it happens again turn the jolt up some more one time will probably do it

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