Recall tips

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Joe3232
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Recall tips

Post by Joe3232 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:13 pm

I want to thank everyone that has answered my questions on my new puppy purchase. I was hoping to get some tips on how to best instill recall.

This is how I am currently doing it.

Blow whistle, when dog looks I say COME and my left hand is raised in arm, when dog looks I drop hand below my waist with a bundled fist. A treat is inside the hand. I start at short distances and work up to more distance. I keep training sessions at 5-10 mins. My hope is to be able to use the whistle to get the dog used to looking at me and use the hand signal so I have option of silent commands in future.

Any downside with this approach?

As a second question, how reliable on recall should I feel before allowing dog off leash in a hunting or training scenario?

Thanks!

polmaise
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Re: Recall tips

Post by polmaise » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:49 pm

1. Walk backwards.
2. I really think you should invest in seeing a Trainer 1 on 1.

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Sharon
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Re: Recall tips

Post by Sharon » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:59 pm

You are making this all very complicated Joe.
I planted pigeons , let the dog chase until it figured out it couldn't catch the bird and started to hesitate/ flash point. Then no more chasing. Time for the leash and a launcher.
An e collar is a great tool for teaching recall. Teach "come " in the backyard with the e collar.... 5 month pup is a fine time Follow the rules for the safe use of an e collar level , known command first - problem solved. You can transition from the e collar to a whistle.
Be interested to hear how the British do it as they can't use an e collar. Come on Polmaise , give me a decent post. :)

As I said before, consider that programme I posted.
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Re: Recall tips

Post by polmaise » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:11 pm

Sharon wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:59 pm

Be interested to hear how the British do it as they can't use an e collar. Come on Polmaise , give me a decent post. :)
Always difficult,because each one is from a different level of understanding. ,The pup however is always in the same place every time :wink:
. Hide and seek ! Let the pup worry about where You are ,rather than you worry about where the pup is ,....Is the start of 'Re-call' conditioning ...that allows you to at least put some sort of command/word/whistle etc IN to the behaviour being actioned by the dog . ...saying 'come' or even sausages' to a thing that doesn't understand the english language is just white noise. ...and er' ..e-collar is only to overlay ''known commands" , so this one hasn't even reached First base ,So.....Best advise is see a trainer first hand ...
Best shot . :wink:

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Re: Recall tips

Post by shags » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:00 pm

Way too complicated. What oyu're doing is setting your dog up for confusion at best and failure at worst.

The whistle, vocal, hand signal, treat in hands thing is not good IMO, because to the dog the command is that whole ball of wax.What happens when your dog can see you but not hear you? Or when she can hear you calling, but can't see your arms and hands?

You can overlay all that stuff, but work first on one, then overlay the next, then overlay the next. So perhaps vocal command since that's what you'll use every day, then overlay the whistle. Then work on the hand signals. That way, your dog will know that each one as a stand-alone means "come". There are times when you might need more than one way to command come - when the dog is at distance upwind of you and she can't hear your voice but can see you, that hand signal will be the bomb; when she's off somewhere and you can't see or hear her or she you, the whistle command will come in handy.

Start out with a cc, call the dog, love her up and give her a treat when she responds. Caution...one command only then enforce it if she does not immediately comply. Nagging with repeated commands teaches the dog that ignoring you is OK up to a certain point. When she's great on the cc, move farther away and let her drag it. One command, compliance or enforcement. When she's solid with that, try w/o the cc at different distances. In new environments you may have to to backtrack to the cc so she understands that come means come no matter where you are. Out in the wide open spaces, you can call then turn around and start walking away as a sort a variation on Robert's hide and seek.

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Featherfinder
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Re: Recall tips

Post by Featherfinder » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:52 am

Joe, you are just learning and that is where we ALL started.
Last edited by Featherfinder on Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Recall tips

Post by birddogger2 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:21 am

Joe -

One of the quickest ways I know to instill a solid recall is what I do with a 10-12 week old puppy.

My wife and I sit opposite each other with a bag of tiny puppy treats. Pup is in between us. Each of us has a long, thin checkcord attached to the pup's collar. It helps if the pup is hungry.

I call pup...ONCE. If it does not immediately come, I reel it in, gently but steadily until it is right in front of me and then I praise and give a puppy treat. My wife then calls the pup...ONCE. As before, if the pup does not come immediately, she will reel the pup in, praise it an give it a treat.

Within a few minutes, it becomes necessary to restrain the pup via the checkcord, to keep it from anticipating the come command and running back and forth for treats on its own. Once the command is given, the restraining checkcord is released and the dog is allowed to run to the other person.

I have never done this with an older dog. Never needed to, but see no reason why it wouldnot work as well or even better with one.

I second the previous poster's comments about you needing to get a foundation for this training and to, most importantly...HAVE A PLAN.

Know what you want to train the dog to do... Know EXACTLY how you are going to teach the dog, step by step, to perform the behavior... and know when to praise the dog for doing what you asked and put it away.

Once you have reviewed all of this in your mind, assemble the tools and training aids you will need...then go out and execute the plan.

Timing is EVERYTHING when training a dog. If you are unsure or confused as to how to proceed, your timing will be off and you will tend to confuse the dog. If you know exactly what you want to do and how to do it... the dog will learn much faster and easier.

Plan your work...then go out and work your plan.

RayG

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deseeker
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Re: Recall tips

Post by deseeker » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:26 pm

X2 on birddoggers 2-- two check cords and a bag of treats--it works very well :!: :D

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Re: Recall tips

Post by Lloyd90 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:27 am

Re-opening an older thread:

What do you do with a pup that knows the recall, will recall 100% in the house, 100% in the yard but when taken out anywhere will do semi-compliant.

Sometimes recalling but at times just charging around, then when recalled will look at you front on almost like a stand off and just decide not to come in?

Pups about 8 months old.

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Re: Recall tips

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:28 pm

At this age to 10 months, I de=bolt the dog. It'll save his life some day. No, this method will not restrict a dog's hunting range unless you're a bonehead and continually recall in the field.

De-bolting a dog is something that should be done to every well trained dog. Quite simply, it means that you take every safe haven away from a dog and make the place by your side the only safe place for the dog. Here's how it's done.

Start the dog on a leash and collar. When walking him into the house, open the door and let him go in then command HERE sharply and give him a series of short, sharp tugs to make him come to you. Do this until he comes reliably out of the house 100% of the time. Now do the same thing in his dog house. Tell him to kennel and once he is in his kennel or house, sharply command HERE and guide him out with a series of sharp tugs. Now do the same thing with your truck or car. Let him jump in or enter on the KENNEL command, then command HERE and give the series of sharp tugs to get him out. This series of sharp tugs is important because it will make transition to nicks with an ecollar easier. Now have people call him, let him go to them on lead, then command HERE while they try to coax him to stay again using a series of short, sharp tugs. By now, on leash, he should come to you at any time, no matter the distraction.

Now we switch it off leash. This a little trickier and it's going to make it a heck of a lot easier if the dog has ALL READY been broken to the ecollar. If the dog has not, use a low power BB pistol, or a paint ball gun but an ecollar is the safest and easiest. Start in a fenced in yard, preferably a small one where the dog has no escape, no distraction and no where to go. When he is at one end of the yard command HERE sharply and nick him. Keep commanding HERE and nicking him, slowly raising the intensity until he comes to your side. You can tell him "good dog" but don't talk baby talk to him and baby him. This is a force drill and it doesn't matter if the dog is happy about it or not. Now sit or whoa the dog, walk away, command HERE, nick him and continue commanding HERE and nicking him until he comes to your side. Do this until he's 100%. He may get to the point that when you command SIT or WHOA he won't, he'll stay with you because he knows what's coming. That's OK, he's now beginning to understand. If he cowers in a corner and won't come, keep commanding HERE, nicking him and raising the intensity until he does come. If you have done a good job on the leash or CC and he is well collar conditioned, this doesn't happen much and if it does, he only tries it once.

OK, now he's 100% off lead in the yard so we proceed to the same procedure we used on leash. Let him walk into the house, command HERE, and nick him. Same with the car, kennel, and dog house or crate. Be careful of this with people because the dog under high stimulation may think it's the person and bite them so most amateurs should skip this step. Tempt him anyway and with anything you can but when you command HERE, he should stop doing whatever he's doing, spin, and come running back to you. He is now de-bolted. This sounds complicated but in reality is a three day process though with a well trained dog, training or reinforcement continues throughout the dog's life.

The end result is that the dog learns that there is no SAFE PLACE BUT AT YOUR SIDE.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Recall tips

Post by Lloyd90 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:49 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:28 pm
At this age to 10 months, I de=bolt the dog. It'll save his life some day. No, this method will not restrict a dog's hunting range unless you're a bonehead and continually recall in the field.

De-bolting a dog is something that should be done to every well trained dog. Quite simply, it means that you take every safe haven away from a dog and make the place by your side the only safe place for the dog. Here's how it's done.

Start the dog on a leash and collar. When walking him into the house, open the door and let him go in then command HERE sharply and give him a series of short, sharp tugs to make him come to you. Do this until he comes reliably out of the house 100% of the time. Now do the same thing in his dog house. Tell him to kennel and once he is in his kennel or house, sharply command HERE and guide him out with a series of sharp tugs. Now do the same thing with your truck or car. Let him jump in or enter on the KENNEL command, then command HERE and give the series of sharp tugs to get him out. This series of sharp tugs is important because it will make transition to nicks with an ecollar easier. Now have people call him, let him go to them on lead, then command HERE while they try to coax him to stay again using a series of short, sharp tugs. By now, on leash, he should come to you at any time, no matter the distraction.

Now we switch it off leash. This a little trickier and it's going to make it a heck of a lot easier if the dog has ALL READY been broken to the ecollar. If the dog has not, use a low power BB pistol, or a paint ball gun but an ecollar is the safest and easiest. Start in a fenced in yard, preferably a small one where the dog has no escape, no distraction and no where to go. When he is at one end of the yard command HERE sharply and nick him. Keep commanding HERE and nicking him, slowly raising the intensity until he comes to your side. You can tell him "good dog" but don't talk baby talk to him and baby him. This is a force drill and it doesn't matter if the dog is happy about it or not. Now sit or whoa the dog, walk away, command HERE, nick him and continue commanding HERE and nicking him until he comes to your side. Do this until he's 100%. He may get to the point that when you command SIT or WHOA he won't, he'll stay with you because he knows what's coming. That's OK, he's now beginning to understand. If he cowers in a corner and won't come, keep commanding HERE, nicking him and raising the intensity until he does come. If you have done a good job on the leash or CC and he is well collar conditioned, this doesn't happen much and if it does, he only tries it once.

OK, now he's 100% off lead in the yard so we proceed to the same procedure we used on leash. Let him walk into the house, command HERE, and nick him. Same with the car, kennel, and dog house or crate. Be careful of this with people because the dog under high stimulation may think it's the person and bite them so most amateurs should skip this step. Tempt him anyway and with anything you can but when you command HERE, he should stop doing whatever he's doing, spin, and come running back to you. He is now de-bolted. This sounds complicated but in reality is a three day process though with a well trained dog, training or reinforcement continues throughout the dog's life.

The end result is that the dog learns that there is no SAFE PLACE BUT AT YOUR SIDE.

I can see how it would work, the dog complies no matter the situation or gets the negative.

What about people who don't use an e-collar?

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Re: Recall tips

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:50 am

Lloyd90 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:49 pm


I can see how it would work, the dog complies no matter the situation or gets the negative.

What about people who don't use an e-collar?
You somehow have to get a remote recall, one without a leash. That's where a BB pistol comes in handy. In the old days all of us were dead eyes with slingshot and marble and that's what was used. If you read the post again, I touch on that. Substitute "nick" of collar for sting with BB or whatever. He MUST come to you when FORCED, not of free will. Then you'll have an obedient dog and it in no way restricts range in the field.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Recall tips

Post by cjhills » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:41 am

My question about the debolting is this. How do you keep the dog from not wanting to leave your side.
I have seen people shoot their dogs even with a shotgun to get a recall. I really do not believe in shooting the dog to get a recall. Training repetition and
And e collar will work. You need to be careful so he does not get to where he only recalls with the ecollar. Although that is better than no recall........Cj

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Re: Recall tips

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:59 pm

cjhills wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:41 am
My question about the debolting is this. How do you keep the dog from not wanting to leave your side.
Tell him to heel. He should not leave you side until released.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Recall tips

Post by cjhills » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:47 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:59 pm
cjhills wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:41 am
My question about the debolting is this. How do you keep the dog from not wanting to leave your side.
Tell him to heel. He should not leave you side until released.
gonehuntin
That is not my question.
My question is if you train your dog to think the only safe place is the heel position by your side, how do you get him to leave you. Especially when he feels stress or maybe a dog that is a bit soft..........Cj

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Re: Recall tips

Post by gonehuntin' » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:51 pm

Sorry CJ, I misunderstood. There is always a release command like "OK". When you're working him on this, you should also instill the release. However, it really isn't necessary. This training only takes one to two weeks, then you're back in the field. With a trained dog.
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Re: Recall tips

Post by Garrison » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:32 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:51 pm
Sorry CJ, I misunderstood. There is always a release command like "OK". When you're working him on this, you should also instill the release. However, it really isn't necessary. This training only takes one to two weeks, then you're back in the field. With a trained dog.
It’s been awhile, good to see your name on a post.
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Re: Recall tips

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:36 am

Garrison wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:32 pm


It’s been awhile, good to see your name on a post.
Thanks Garrison. Got Covid and Covid Induced Pneumonia. I lost the entire bird season and am just recovered now. Then, thought I'd go to Kansas for a hunt and the dog tore a toe nail off. A fitting end to 2020.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

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Re: Recall tips

Post by slistoe » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:39 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:36 am
Thanks Garrison. Got Covid and Covid Induced Pneumonia. I lost the entire bird season and am just recovered now. Then, thought I'd go to Kansas for a hunt and the dog tore a toe nail off. A fitting end to 2020.
Glad your feeling better - I wouldn't wish pneumonia on my enemy.

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Re: Recall tips

Post by Garrison » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:47 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:36 am
Garrison wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:32 pm


It’s been awhile, good to see your name on a post.
Thanks Garrison. Got Covid and Covid Induced Pneumonia. I lost the entire bird season and am just recovered now. Then, thought I'd go to Kansas for a hunt and the dog tore a toe nail off. A fitting end to 2020.
Yikes! Glad to hear you are back on your feet.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
- Mark Twain-

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