How to fix>?

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uplandviz
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How to fix>?

Post by uplandviz » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:01 pm

My puppy (4.5 month old Drahthaar) found a deer leg in the woods last week. When she found it, game over- she took off and didnt want to listen becuase she wanted to keep the leg. Today, while training, she found someone elses shot chukar. She got so excited and took off with it (on checkcord but caught me off guard) and again wouldnt listen. I didnt want to chase her but there was a road near by, sure enough, I was able to get her last second.


Is there any basic work I should be doing to break this habit now? Working on recall and have not started Ecollar yet as I want her at a higher success rate when not distracted.

Last question- do you Force fetch your own dog or have someone do it for you? Never had to as my vizslas never needed it...this Drahthaar is much more bold and independant! haha

Thanks for any advice you may have!
Life is too short not to get lost in the woods once in awhile

shags
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by shags » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:30 pm

When my pups start ignoring me, the ecollar goes on and they soon figure out that I can reach out and touch them from far far away. End of problem. Usually they are around 5-6 months old when I go to the collar, but it depends on how boneheaded- or compliant-natured they are.

I don't mess around with trying to retrain with a cc because we have roads on 3 sides of us, and I won't take a chance on the proofing. Scraping a dog off the road isn't something I want to do.

However, I collar condition for the recall with a cc. Then they wear the collar every single time out, until they're over that rebellious stage.

A nick or two with the collar and we're good to go, and if they forget over time, a little Re-education Camp gets them right back on track; maybe once or twice over their lifetimes.

Good luck, those deer legs are digusting :P

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Sharon
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by Sharon » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:33 pm

and dangerous. Big talk here in Canada about deer wasting disease.

https://www.google.com/search?q=deer+wa ... e&ie=UTF-8
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averageguy
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by averageguy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:20 pm

You need to train Recall and then use an ecollar to proof it. Perfect Start DVD provides excellent instruction on how to introduce an ecollar, teach Here and Proof with the ecollar.

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Re: How to fix>?

Post by averageguy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:35 pm

Sharon wrote:and dangerous. Big talk here in Canada about deer wasting disease.

https://www.google.com/search?q=deer+wa ... e&ie=UTF-8
32 positive cases in 30008 deer tested in my State for a .001 occurrence rate. The Talk far exceeds the disease.

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Re: How to fix>?

Post by polmaise » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:57 pm

uplandviz wrote: Thanks for any advice you may have!
You are in New Jersey .
Contact . https://oncommanddog.wordpress.com/author/oncommanddog/

mask
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by mask » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:26 pm

What happened to letting a pup be a pup. At 4 or 5 months I would not shock the pup. A check cord is plenty.

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Re: How to fix>?

Post by setterpoint » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:45 pm

I know you said a road was close so I don't blame you for going after your dog, but that was the worst thing to do
turn and go the other direction your dog
I do this if I'm playing fetch in the yard when the dog gets it sometimes they like playing keep a way the more you chase the worst it gets
so next time out if your dog finds something and runs from you turn and walk away in differant direction and call your dog

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CDN_Cocker
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by CDN_Cocker » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:09 pm

Sounds like a typical puppy. That being said, compliance is required to have a functional partnership as an adult dog. You need to anticipate what the dog is going to do before it knows what it's going to do and be prepared to reinforce whatever command you give it. The tool you use is up to you (leash, check cord, e-collar etc).
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Timewise65
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by Timewise65 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:50 am

I would not start the e collar until the pup is at least 6 months, even 8 months depending how receptive the pup is to training (not yet mature?). Then I would introduce the pup to the ecollar following a specific training routine to introduce the ecollar.

Right now the use of a 30' lead it the best recall training tool. But, I use a pinch collar with the training routine, in that way you can teach to dog not to pull on the check cord, and with a 'slight' jerk remind the pup they must come when called....

Good Luck

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isonychia
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by isonychia » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:04 am

At 18 weeks old, your job is to facilitate the environment for safety and exploration. If you are exploring, you are in a save environment as far as roads go. Off leash at this age means safe areas, not forcing the dog to recall reliably without the proper maturity and foundation. Also, your 18 month old puppy IS NOT GOING TO LISTEN when it is super into something. This is where the check chord comes in. Do not give a command that can not be enforced at this age. You are the creator of the pup's learning environment, you must set things up for success. If a 5 month old pup grabs a bird and runs away from me, I let it. You can solidify recall later, the problem is the recall. Also, if you are always taking things away from your dog the instant you get him back, he learns that you are going to take his fun away, I wouldn't recall either. Let the pup play with dead stuff at least a little bit before taking it away. Last but not least, remember these are dogs and they must do as dogs do. I think you are on the right track, just add a little more patience and a larger buffer for your mistakes and your pup's exploration.

averageguy
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by averageguy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:21 pm

Good post Isonychia - particularly the advise about safe places, using a check cord and not snatching a bird or an object from the pup's mouth so it never wants to bring you something.

I have my pups drag a check cord at all times when outside, I pick my spots when I call them avoiding the moments when the pup is obviously distracted and not going to heed my request, I re-enforce the Here command always with the check cord if need be, and when the pup is ready I overlay the ecollar using very low levels of stimulation and the check cord, to teach the pup swift compliance to a Here command turns off the tickle it is feeling on its neck.

I have been fortunate to live in safe rural areas far enough away from roads but if I did not, I would load my pup up and drive to such an area until the pup is adequately trained on recall.

If my pup is distracted and heading towards danger, I stay silent and move towards it as quietly and rapidly as I can to get my foot on the check cord and stop it, but I first and foremost strive to avoid dangerous situations in the first place by controlling where I turn the pup loose.

Age of ecollar introductions first requires you to know how and when to use an ecollar tool. Hence my recommendation of the Perfect Start dvd which if followed ensures you will get it right vs wrong. Second critical criteria is the individual puppy's temperament. How bold and confident are they? Some I have had were ready at 4 months, others not. All required me to make good decisions on timing and stimulation levels, which is always the case when using the ecollar tool.

Have Fun the puppy stage goes too fast. Take lots of photos.

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Re: How to fix>?

Post by cjhills » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:45 pm

averageguy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:35 pm
Sharon wrote:and dangerous. Big talk here in Canada about deer wasting disease.

https://www.google.com/search?q=deer+wa ... e&ie=UTF-8
32 positive cases in 30008 deer tested in my State for a .001 occurrence rate. The Talk far exceeds the disease.
Talk may exceed the disease, but the time to stop it is before it spreads. 32 cases could be a pretty high number. It was just discovered for the first time in the wild deer herd in northern Minnesota near my home. We also had it in a captive elk herd 2 miles from my home awhile back. DNR shot a number of deer and tested several thousand in deer season. no positives. But it isillegal to feed deer in the winter now and to plant food plots...…...Cj

averageguy
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by averageguy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:45 am

I am well read on the subject of CWD. The prion lives in the soil for decades. Eradicating deer in a zone can never eliminate the prions continued existence in the area. Birds of prey commonly feed on carcasses and they migrate so there remains other obvious risks of transporting the prions into other areas.

With a .001 occurrence rate I fear the pattern of Government agency overreactions far more that the disease.

birds
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by birds » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:58 am

I would agree that CWD will probably reach us all in time - it already has here in MT just in the last few years. As to its real world affect, maybe we should ask folks in Colorado - I think they have been dealing with it about as long as anyone and my understanding is that it has had an enormous affect on mule deer numbers. It doesn't seem like something to ignore, but maybe it has a greater affect in some landscapes than others.

My apologies in contributing to hijacking this thread....again :oops:

averageguy
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by averageguy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:09 pm

There is actually little to no evidence that CWD has had a significant impact on Mule deer in Colorado. Many other factors are at work in their population dynamics. Further it is noteworthy that first discovery of CWD was in a captive research herd there over 50 years ago and yet their elk herd has remained robust for all that time.

Urban sprawl into wintering areas, weather events and large increases in large predator populations are much more at work on the mule deer than CWD in most areas.

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Re: How to fix>?

Post by birds » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:57 pm

No doubt all those things play varying rolls, as does certain hunting pressure (we humans are predators too - just ask the deer). But when you are facing death of a thousand cuts, every cut takes its toll. And its apparently a cut that Colorado Parks and Wildlife takes seriously enough to call out.

From May 2018

https://cpw.state.co.us/Lists/News%20Re ... px?ID=6496

My last post here. Back to the OP and his problem pooch :D

averageguy
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by averageguy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:19 pm

Sure when a Government agency is tasked with overseeing Wildlife Resources they are going to do something vs nothing. A product of decades of growing Government at all levels portraying themselves as the solution to all problems. Most Departments are monitoring. Some have taken the annihilate all the deer approach. The latter is far worse than the disease and not something I am favor of on or around my farm. Not sure we will have any say in the matter however.

Admin started the Hi-Jack so I guess it is ok? OP got several responses to their question and we've heard nothing since so hopefully not something anyone gets too bunched up about.

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DonF
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by DonF » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:55 am

I don't force a dog anymore, never did enjoy it. These days I play train fetch with a pup. Put it on a 20' check cord. On your end of the cord is a knot that keep's the pup from pulling the cord through your hand. Get on your knees and toss an object a short distance for the pup to go after, never ever beyond the CC at this stage. Eary on let the pup check it out a few moment's and when it put's it's mouth on it, nudge the pup back toward you, sort of coax it in in the early stages. Get's back with what ever the object was, love it up but don't take the object right away. To take the object, if your right handed, pull the pup into you while it's holding the object get the collar under the chin with your left hand and stroke the pup with the right hand on the right side of the pup. Doing that pulls the pup to you! Two or three times and go down past the flank, just in front of the back leg and get your two middle finger's under that flap of skin, raise up saying your release word at the same time and as soon as the pup turns it's head to remove your finger's it will let go of the object and the left hand under the chin get's the object and the right and finger's straighten out and release the flank. This works like magic and as always, timing is important You might want to practice on your wife! Switch the object the pup is retrieving so it learns that whatever it pick's up, it brings it to you when you say fetch! You teach your dog to bring you whatever it finds is a good thing and the pup will bring you stuff it picks up. You could reinforce the here command but with something in it's mouth it want's it may take a bit to overcome the temptation to come back. Let's face it, you and it both know your gonna take it away as soon as it get's back and discourage it! Right? Don't do that, simply teach it to bring things to you it picks up, it's called fetch. Turns out to be a game puppy's like. if you don't think it's gonna happen early on, keep your mouth shut and play along till you get the pup back with the object. Don't simply take it away then, face it, you and the pup are together and the detestable object ripe with maggot's is still in it's mouth, pup is a good boy and go through the thank you and release routine, disgusting as it may be! The annoyance the turn's out to a positive for the pup. It hasn't disobeyed any command!
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Re: How to fix>?

Post by JONOV » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:25 pm

If you intend to test the dog in the JGHV system, then you really should force fetch. A friend was at the HZP for a minority JGHV breed, he said the only dogs that failed on the retrieving were those whose owners refused to FF.

I would recommend that you do test your dog in their system. More than the genetic qualities of their dogs, I think one of the reasons DD's have become so popular is the focus on training the dog for a testing system, as well as training days and the training manual. It puts an expiration deadline on training milestones.

I don't think you have anything to worry about with your 4.5 month old dog doing what he did...He's a puppy. Check cord and get on collar conditioning him soon. By that, I mean start educating yourself this next month or so so you can fix the dog when you need to.

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