recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

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Novice123
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recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Novice123 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:14 pm

I have been watching Jeremy Moore's DVD 'Gun Dog Puppy Training'. He uses a whistle to teach the cue for recall. He doesn't use an e-collar and he thinks an e-collar often does more harm in the hands of the amateur trainer. I have a reservation for a French Brittany pup for June 1, 2019. I plan to use the puppy training process in the Jeremy Moore video. However, I think a point in the process will occur when the dog is in the 'adolescence ' stage that the dog will ignore the whistle in the field. I ordered an e-collar with the idea that at some point I will have to use it in the most gentle way for recall and keeping the dog from chasing deer. I have also watched the 'Perfect Start' DVD and I like that one as well. How would you compare use of a whistle for recall versus the 'tone' feature available on some e-collars to cue the dog to recall? I was thinking the whistle would help the dog to find ME in heavy cover. However, I like the tone cue for the recall as well. I thought I could overlay the tone cue with the whistle cue as the dog gets older or will the whistle be sufficient? What is your opinion as more experienced trainers? I only want to use the minimum level of stimulation with the e-collar as shown in the Perfect Start DVD. It is an interesting side note that Jeremy Moore starts puppies at 7 weeks in training, using only positive reinforcement or a gentle tug on the collar. I can train with wild Sharptail grouse as they are plentiful. I think that will help the dog to learn how to hunt and not just how to point. I don't want steady to shot or wing, just hunt, point, retrieve and don't get run over by a truck!

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by isonychia » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:41 pm

What you use as the command for recall doesn't matter and once you have the basics down you can use more than one recall. Personally I like to use a verbal command first because you almost always have your voice on you, then whistle, then you get into collar conditioning. I haven't heard of the other one but Perfect Start gets good reviews.

In other words, the recall command doesn't matter as much as the methods to produce the desired results once the command is given.

Also... the whistle is an indispensable tool for recall. You may need to recall your dog when he does not have a collar on and is out of voice range or when/if you loose him and need to cover ground with a command that broadcasts your location without ruining your voice.

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Novice123 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:19 pm

Sir, thanks for the help. I was confused on this issue. I will use your advice when the time for training comes. I have not had a pointing dog for 45 years and am really looking forward to having one. :D

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by polmaise » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:25 pm

I start them earlier than 7 weeks .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbZz_iHEug

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by tops911 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:27 pm

I started training my dogs to recall with vibrate after having a dog loose it's hearing. I had her trained to the whistle and she was great, but after her loss of hearing I could not recall her without nicking her, which made me feel horrible when she would look at me wondering what she did wrong. just my experience and 2 cents worth :D

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by birddogger2 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:20 am

I just recently purchased a replacement e-collar. It came with vibrate and tone features.

I typically train my dogs to recall on voice and on whistle but only use the whistle command VERY sparingly, and enforce it fairly vigorously, because when I do hit the whistle, I want the dog to respond immediately. FWIW, I start the pups on recall with two 20-30 ft. checkcords, one held by my wife and the other by me and each of us with a handful of tiny puppy treats. Calling the pup, then reeling it in, if necessary and finishing with a treat is the drill. In a few lessons, the pup is FLYING from one to the other to get that treat, especially if it is hungry. I then go to one checkcord, still with treats and give a treat intermittently, but a pat on the flank and verbal praise...every time. Eventually, just the pat and the praise.

In the field, I typically do not want the dog to come all the way back to me, but rather to swing by and "check in". When they do that, they get an "ALL RIGHT" and a release to head back out again. I train for field trials and in field trials, having the dog come all the way back in is frowned upon as a waste of time. You want them to check back in, within visual range and then head back out again.

Anyhow, with the new collar, I decided to overlay the tone as a recall command, in addition to the others on my two most recent pupils. It has worked EXTREMELY well for me. The dogs come in quickly and happily to check back in. And no noise.

Hope this is of some use.

RayG

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Novice123 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:12 am

Everyone, this is awesome advice. I have learned so much from this forum that is going to help both my dog and me. Even when there are heated debates, the different points of view are both valid and the reader can sort out what will fit his/her goals and style. I am printing this 'thread' right now for further reference (recall). Thank you so much!

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by weimdogman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:30 am

birddogger2 wrote:I just recently purchased a replacement e-collar. It came with vibrate and tone features.

I typically train my dogs to recall on voice and on whistle but only use the whistle command VERY sparingly, and enforce it fairly vigorously, because when I do hit the whistle, I want the dog to respond immediately. FWIW, I start the pups on recall with two 20-30 ft. checkcords, one held by my wife and the other by me and each of us with a handful of tiny puppy treats. Calling the pup, then reeling it in, if necessary and finishing with a treat is the drill. In a few lessons, the pup is FLYING from one to the other to get that treat, especially if it is hungry. I then go to one checkcord, still with treats and give a treat intermittently, but a pat on the flank and verbal praise...every time. Eventually, just the pat and the praise.

In the field, I typically do not want the dog to come all the way back to me, but rather to swing by and "check in". When they do that, they get an "ALL RIGHT" and a release to head back out again. I train for field trials and in field trials, having the dog come all the way back in is frowned upon as a waste of time. You want them to check back in, within visual range and then head back out again.

Anyhow, with the new collar, I decided to overlay the tone as a recall command, in addition to the others on my two most recent pupils. It has worked EXTREMELY well for me. The dogs come in quickly and happily to check back in. And no noise.

Hope this is of some use.

RayG
Great post! Positive and informative

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by isonychia » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:49 am

+1 on the whistle being a "do or die" command. That whistle puts the fear of all things scary into my dog that he better get to me NOW. Has saved his but too.

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by polmaise » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:15 pm

birddogger2 wrote:I just recently purchased a replacement e-collar. It came with vibrate and tone features.

I typically train my dogs to recall on voice and on whistle but only use the whistle command VERY sparingly, and enforce it fairly vigorously, because when I do hit the whistle, I want the dog to respond immediately. FWIW, I start the pups on recall with two 20-30 ft. checkcords, one held by my wife and the other by me and each of us with a handful of tiny puppy treats. Calling the pup, then reeling it in, if necessary and finishing with a treat is the drill. In a few lessons, the pup is FLYING from one to the other to get that treat, especially if it is hungry. I then go to one checkcord, still with treats and give a treat intermittently, but a pat on the flank and verbal praise...every time. Eventually, just the pat and the praise.

In the field, I typically do not want the dog to come all the way back to me, but rather to swing by and "check in". When they do that, they get an "ALL RIGHT" and a release to head back out again. I train for field trials and in field trials, having the dog come all the way back in is frowned upon as a waste of time. You want them to check back in, within visual range and then head back out again.

Anyhow, with the new collar, I decided to overlay the tone as a recall command, in addition to the others on my two most recent pupils. It has worked EXTREMELY well for me. The dogs come in quickly and happily to check back in. And no noise.

Hope this is of some use.

RayG
Apologies ! I thought the OP was talking about an 8 week old puppy . :oops: ...

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by birddogger2 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:12 pm

polmaise wrote:
birddogger2 wrote:

Anyhow, with the new collar, I decided to overlay the tone as a recall command, in addition to the others on my two most recent pupils. It has worked EXTREMELY well for me. The dogs come in quickly and happily to check back in. And no noise.

Hope this is of some use.

RayG
Apologies ! I thought the OP was talking about an 8 week old puppy . :oops: ...
Indeed I believe he was getting his ducks in a row for a prospective pup in June of next year, so that would be an eight week(or so) old pup.

I actually started with my latest pup at about 8 wks. old doing, among other things, the two check cord "come in" for treats. I thought it might be useful to the OP to sketch the rest of the progression I like to follow to train for that particular behavior.

RayG

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by EAM » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:27 pm

If taught correctly dog will respond to the tone, come, or the whistle. But, as someone mentioned above, in the future you may not want the dog to return all the way with the whistle, just more of a check in. I would make the dog come in all the way on the whistle in the beginning.

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by JONOV » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:38 pm

Using the tone on the e-collar has nothing to do with any objections with the e-collar, anymore than wood used in gunstocks is a complaint of the Gun Control crowd.

Its just a sound the dog learns to come back. Its one of the best things I've done with my dog, I can quietly get him back to me, be it early in the morning if I don't want to yell and wake up my neighbors, be it in a crowded area where I don't want to yell, or on a hunt where I don't want to yell...

The trainer referenced in OP's post does have a good point; like any tool, in the hands of the untrained an e-collar can cause problems. But, so can anything else. If all you ever use it for is frying the dog when he chases a deer or rolls in a cowpie, that's fine. But you can use it to many more ends if you read up on it.

It isn't unlike a sledge hammer. People see it and think of demolition work, and its fine for that, but its also a tool that can be used for so much more, from splitting wood to gently loosening things that need a budge, etc...

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Timewise65 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:48 pm

As you probably know, people like me who run Retrievers, uses whistle commands on most all finished dogs. We not only use them for recall, but for sit command also. This allows us to stop a retriever who has been sent to retrieve a bird they did not see drop (a blind retrieve). On command the dogs leaves from a heal position and takes a straight line until the here the whistle, telling them to stop face the trainer and sit for further instructions. We then use hand and body signals to tell the dog to go right, left, over right, over left, or straight back. In that time we handle them to a down bird. Their nose does the rest!

My point here is that we train our dogs using verbal commands initially, shifting to whistle commands as they get the sit (1 tweet) and here/recall (tweet, tweet, tweet...) obedience 100% correct. This transition to whistle is very easy as you just add it at the end of the verbal command they all ready know. within a few days all you need is the whistle.....

Good luck

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Warrior372 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:07 pm

I trained my French Brittany to recall to a whistle and then discovered one really big problem with that. On really windy days when my dog was 100+ yards away he could not hear the whistle. So, I trained the whistle recall with the locate beep - not stim - on my Dogtra T&B 2500 and he quickly started recalling to both. Now I just hit the locate button, it beeps on his collar so wind is irrelevant and he knows I want him back with me.

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Featherfinder » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:04 am

I know I stand alone in my philosophy re whistles but here we go.
I NEVER used a whistle developing trial champions. Why? Because a less-than-ethical brace-mate can handle your dog for you - like it or not. Yes, I have had folk use their whistles and verbals to try to crash my dog(s). ..love it, especially when you have savvy judges. ;) "My" voice remains my voice when I handle dogs and "Yes, dogs know the difference."
I NEVER used/use a whistle for my gun dogs. Why? Because they are GUN dogs, not trialers. In-other-words, there is no reason that your dog can't hear you working even a "healthy" distance from you while remaining productive on wild birds. Beyond that, in the rare event that I need intervene in my dog's application, I want that to remain between the dog and I. Whistles can be LONG range there-by notifying ever "wild bird" that you and your canine team are approaching tipping the odds in the bird's favor. Typically, we push the truck doors closed rather than slamming them, for good reason.
The tone/beeper on the Dogtra 2500/2700 e-collar is intended to tip you off to your dog's find in dense or hilly terrain. I use point-only mode as required so that as the dog secures a find, I do a directional locate, then immediately turn off the beeper. The "locate" can give you a momentary indication of where she/he is. The last thing you want to do is have you dog break a productive cast (recall) because you simply needed a brief locate!
Here is the question, "How does your dog differentiate a beeper as a recall, from a beeper notification intended to help you find a standing dog? If you say your dog is capable of learning/knowing the difference, I won't disagree. I'm just trying to figure out why you would do that when you can simply say, "Come" minimizing the ambiguity for your dog.
I use very few verbals. One is "come", the other is "here", as required. The first means return right to me. The other means redirect your application because we do this as a team or, the dog is simply going the wrong way. "Here" means swing this way but keep working. I don't like to speak at all so it is a last warning to that unruly dog. I rarely if ever used it in a trial (have done to keep a dog from yet another find in the dying seconds of a winning performance but I digress). Trialing, I only "sang" to support my dogs rather than to keep them on course. They already understood the expectations so, there was little more they needed from me.
Some folk love to control/handle their dogs, to their detriment. Here is but one indicator, "My dog has won trials, is COMPLETELY steady but he seems bump his finds on wild birds." The poor dog doesn't stand a chance - toot, toot, toot, Ho!....Here!....toot...toooot...
This is a reflection of the dog's training rather than his ability.

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by polmaise » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:28 pm

I often work a dog ..Or even multiple dogs in what we call a "Beating line" ..A line of handlers and dogs who all have the same Acme whistle around our neck . My dog stops when I blow it and the others dogs do not . ???
The same when other folk blow there whistle ,mine doesn't stop !!??
....
If one credits dogs, to be so acute to ones individual voice tone ,they surely can figure out an individuals whistle ...even when they are manufactured to specific Tone (before use) :wink: :lol:
...
I never sound the same saying "Here" or "Come" when I am standing still on a flat park having done No physical activity in the previous few minutes as apposed to having just climbed a hill ,then said anything !!!
Ask Bill T :wink:
.......
I am sure it has other factors in the situation that the dog is far more intelligent to work out than a single solitary use of any tool !? .....being right /wrong for the handler -trainer to assume what works best over any other singular tool (including his/her self) 8)

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by polmaise » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:08 pm

For no other reason than spending valuable time with Retriever puppies ..........and a Cocker :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oszfoJfNehQ

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Trekmoor » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:30 am

I am far from being certain about this as I have never been to the States but to judge from what I have read on this forum I have a feeling we, in Britain, use our whistles considerably more than you lads do when working pointing dogs and maybe spaniels too ?

I use a whistle to turn a pointer if it is going too far out and "too far out" will differ according to where I am hunting the dog. Personally, I neither want nor need a dog that hunts out to beyond about 300 - 400 yards and I find that an ACME 212 will carry that sort of distance ….and further …..if the dog is prepared to actually respond to that whistle !

How well a whistle command works depends on how well it has been trained to work. I have, 2 or 3 times had a problem in spaniel tests when the competitor I have been paired with for the hunt has used the same kind of whistle as I do. This was a problem only because I hadn't trained sufficiently for it. I tend to train on my own and I had omitted to hunt my young spaniel in company with another trainer and his spaniel. I paid the price for that failure of mine. The other handler in the test blew one "pip" to turn his dog and my dog was trained to stop and sit to one little "pip" on the whistle.


The result of that was that every time he needed to turn his dog ….my dog sat instantly ! I did not win that test and I didn't deserve to either ….. I hadn't put the work in to get a win out ! The other handler was in no way to blame, he was not deliberately messing up my dog, the problem was one of my own making.


Whistled commands work well only if they are thoroughly taught. It's when that has not been done that you hear the dawn chorus from your hunting companions ! That happens a lot in Britain just as it happens a lot in the States. It is very irritating but , with experience, your dog will learn to work only to your own whistle.

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:37 am

weimdogman wrote:
birddogger2 wrote:I just recently purchased a replacement e-collar. It came with vibrate and tone features.

I typically train my dogs to recall on voice and on whistle but only use the whistle command VERY sparingly, and enforce it fairly vigorously, because when I do hit the whistle, I want the dog to respond immediately. FWIW, I start the pups on recall with two 20-30 ft. checkcords, one held by my wife and the other by me and each of us with a handful of tiny puppy treats. Calling the pup, then reeling it in, if necessary and finishing with a treat is the drill. In a few lessons, the pup is FLYING from one to the other to get that treat, especially if it is hungry. I then go to one checkcord, still with treats and give a treat intermittently, but a pat on the flank and verbal praise...every time. Eventually, just the pat and the praise.

In the field, I typically do not want the dog to come all the way back to me, but rather to swing by and "check in". When they do that, they get an "ALL RIGHT" and a release to head back out again. I train for field trials and in field trials, having the dog come all the way back in is frowned upon as a waste of time. You want them to check back in, within visual range and then head back out again.

Anyhow, with the new collar, I decided to overlay the tone as a recall command, in addition to the others on my two most recent pupils. It has worked EXTREMELY well for me. The dogs come in quickly and happily to check back in. And no noise.

Hope this is of some use.

RayG
Great post! Positive and informative


I have used the vibrate for years and have been pleased with the results and I still have ability to stimulate if and when needed.

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Featherfinder » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:39 am

Polmaise, I think you are agreeing with what I said perhaps?
Trekmoor, it goes without saying that we do things differently on this side of the pond. I have witnessed this mostly from videos my cousin in Italy has shared of European pointing dog trials. Keep in mind that we have significantly more land - in some cases HUGE expanses to hunt in North America - very different from most European tracts. We also have some diversity in truly wild game bird species as well. I'm not saying they do not exist in Europe. I'm saying where/how we hunt them is diverse.
Even the local spaniel trials I have attended here tend to cultivate a showy over-handling of dogs with frequent whistle blasts which make the dog's application overly dependent on the handler - a rather robotic, mechanical, synthetic performance. The upside is that if you handled one of these dogs this way on the wild pheasants I hunt, you would most assuredly save significant coin on shot shells!
I have developed a few flushers (both Labs and springers) for clients that hunt wild birds. Admittedly, these dogs would NEVER place in a trial but they handled/patterned well to the gun, quietly thereby providing decent shooting opportunities on wild birds.
I see it this way: It is the dog's responsibility to produce birds for the gun be it a flusher or pointer. I hunt birds - not dogs. While this seems logical, you might be surprised at how many owners/handlers see themselves as directors, rather than witnesses to their dogs finding birds. It is anything BUT team-work. These owner/handlers sachet across vast expanses with their chests pumped up displaying their control over their dog(s). It translates into an overt display of unproductive over-handling, hacking and whistling - field after field after field. It might be showy but has no place in the wild bird world I frequent.
As the Scots say, "Why have a dog and bark yourself?" (Trekmoor, my apologies Sir, if the wording is incorrect.)

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:14 pm

I always train the dog's to the whistle first, then transition to the collar, either tone or vibration. One whistle (or tone) means WHOA, two means NO, three HERE. They catch onto it very quickly once they're trained to the whistle. What I would NEVER do is to use either the tone or vibration to WARN the dog before I correct the dog. That will lead to trouble. If the error warrants a warning, it warrants a correction.
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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by averageguy » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:33 pm

I train my puppies to recall to voice, whistle and the tone on the ecollar in that order. Once trained I use the tone on the ecollar nearly exclusively as I place a huge premium on hunting in silence. The Perfect Start DVD provides excellent instruction on how to use a check cord to train the Here command and then how to introduce and overlay an ecollar to enforce the already understood command at a distance as needed.

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by mrelite » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:59 pm

I have also been using the e-collar for recall on my 2 year male old EP, I use the tone for the dog to come all they way back to me and heel, and I use the vibrate to get the dog to turn or at least look for me when I change directions and both of these work pretty darn good.....but, I seem to need to back up the tone with a whistle because my dog seems to loose track of where I am and I often see him go the wrong direction when I hit the tone (I sometimes hide to see his reactions). I am sure he is wanting to recall because I can hit the tone again and see him stop and look around and take off in another direction but if I whistle he will instantly start coming in the right direction. If we are in open type terrain and he can see me there is no issue but in heavy cover it's a whole different story.
My want is to just hit the tone and have the dog know where I am so that I may "remain silent". When he is far or in heavy cover I have at times just watched the dog GPS and hit the tone, then watched him go the wrong direction then I will hit the tone again and see him change direction but that hasn't worked well to get him back, there are too many directions and I always end up whistling and that gets him coming in the right direction.

So for those of you that use the tone for recall and want to "remain silent" what do you do when the dog is 3 or 4 hundred yds out in desert arroyos or in heavy cover

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by polmaise » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:11 pm

mrelite wrote: what do you do when the dog is 3 or 4 hundred yds out in desert arroyos or in heavy cover
Not that We have any desert in Scotland ...But I guess I wouldn't let any dog hunt nothing ......

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Trekmoor » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:15 am

I can only agree with Robert (Polmaise), I wouldn't let a dog hunt out 3 to 400 hundred yards away from me in thick cover. I probably wouldn't let it get much more than 60 yards. I don't use GPS or an e-collar…. too complicated for my non-techie brain but I do put my whistle to good use whenever it seems logical to use it. I put my trust in training not in technology.


This is another instance that points out the differing expectations and the differing ways in which we work our dogs on the opposing sides of the pond.


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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by mrelite » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:45 am

I can often get this dog to hunt 50 to a 100 yds but if the birds aren't there his area continues to get bigger and bigger which is what is needed out here, if I were to keep him in that range I would have to constantly be handling him and that goes against what this EP was bred for. An example would be that the dog is working out in front of me at whatever distance but we can not see or hear each other, all of a sudden I hear the quail talking in a different direction then my dog is working, my want is to recall him and go in a different direction. With that scenario I can't recall him without giving him a whistle and often it is more than one whistle that is needed, then you can be sure that the quail will run like heck and fly as soon as they hear the dog coming.


So basically I can't figure out how to "Remain silent" like others have mentioned

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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by averageguy » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:25 pm

mrelite wrote:I have also been using the e-collar for recall on my 2 year male old EP, I use the tone for the dog to come all they way back to me and heel, and I use the vibrate to get the dog to turn or at least look for me when I change directions and both of these work pretty darn good.....but, I seem to need to back up the tone with a whistle because my dog seems to loose track of where I am and I often see him go the wrong direction when I hit the tone (I sometimes hide to see his reactions). I am sure he is wanting to recall because I can hit the tone again and see him stop and look around and take off in another direction but if I whistle he will instantly start coming in the right direction. If we are in open type terrain and he can see me there is no issue but in heavy cover it's a whole different story.
My want is to just hit the tone and have the dog know where I am so that I may "remain silent". When he is far or in heavy cover I have at times just watched the dog GPS and hit the tone, then watched him go the wrong direction then I will hit the tone again and see him change direction but that hasn't worked well to get him back, there are too many directions and I always end up whistling and that gets him coming in the right direction.

So for those of you that use the tone for recall and want to "remain silent" what do you do when the dog is 3 or 4 hundred yds out in desert arroyos or in heavy cover
Early development is how I have done it. Taking the puppies into cover when they are small enough that they are not comfortable being on their own for too long and then they naturally will be looking for me. My GWPs have strong natural tracking skills and have quickly learned to loop and cut my boot track and follow it back to me. In open cover they hunt the direction I walk. I built the cooperation from the ground up starting at a young age before they become too bold to care about my whereabouts and praise them when they swing around and move to the front of me.

I have certainly experienced instances where the combination of wind and cover made them confused as to my whereabouts and they may head in the wrong direction when I hit the tone. But the early development comes into play in that they are still looking to cut my boot track and when they do not, they try a different direction. And there are a few instances where I have to resort to my whistle to give them an audio clue to my whereabouts but not very often. Not much help in addressing a 2 year old and I am sorry I don't have something better to offer on that.

Sidenote; I have been hoping to hear how your elk hunt went, send me a pm and share your hunt with me if you would please.

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mrelite
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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by mrelite » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:13 pm

[quote]Early development is how I have done it. Taking the puppies into cover when they are small enough that they are not comfortable being on their own for too long and then they naturally will be looking for me. My GWPs have strong natural tracking skills and have quickly learned to loop and cut my boot track and follow it back to me. In open cover they hunt the direction I walk. I built the cooperation from the ground up starting at a young age before they become too bold to care about my whereabouts and praise them when they swing around and move to the front of me.

I have certainly experienced instances where the combination of wind and cover made them confused as to my whereabouts and they may head in the wrong direction when I hit the tone. But the early development comes into play in that they are still looking to cut my boot track and when they do not, they try a different direction. And there are a few instances where I have to resort to my whistle to give them an audio clue to my whereabouts but not very often. Not much help in addressing a 2 year old and I am sorry I don't have something better to offer on that.
/quote]


I can see that early development would make a difference, I got this dog at 4 months old and he was already very independent with what he wanted to do. With no experience training a gun dog I probably wasn't the right person to try and train such an intense dog but now at two years of age his hunting path and mine are starting to come together, LOL just not a silent as I would like.

mzombek
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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by mzombek » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:30 pm

Hi guys, a bunch of good info here. I am going to add something about my wife's dog. She bought a year and a half English setter from a breeder that didn't lie but didn't tell us everything about the dog. I am in the process of researching training info and came across this. I think that she was a bit abused and very skidish. Would it be a bad idea to start using an e-collar for recall in her mental state?
Thanks

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Featherfinder
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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Featherfinder » Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:27 pm

Yes. This dog needs to understand the expectation. This is no place for an e-collar. There needs to be significant foundation training in an effort to convey what you want from this dog.

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Nmhuntr
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Re: recall to whistle versus e-collar tone recall

Post by Nmhuntr » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:58 pm

I trained my dog to recall on a single whistle. By default she also recalls on a single push of the tone on the e-collar. I don’t mind it and have learned to use it to my advantage.

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