When is a pup too young for a choke chain?

[stuartjeff]

I'm working on training my three month old pup to not pull on a lead and my progress is slow. I didn't do a good job with consistency during my first couple of weeks of lead training so I understand that it is going to take some time to correct my mistakes and get the dog to understand what I really want. However, I was discussing this with another dog owner and he suggested that I get a choke chain to help things along. I'm thinking my pup is really too young to use one on him at this point but I'm curious about when all of you feel a dog is old enough to be walked on a choker?

By the way I am currently following some advice I received here about giving him a light jerk whenever he pulls ahead and telling him no and then telling him good dog when he is walking calmly at my side. When he gets distracted by something then I'm telling him to come without changing my pace and not giving him a correction. I figure at his age it would be a little bit much to expect him to not get distracted but it is perfectly reasonable to insist that he not try to pull me. So far I'm already seeing results. He is pulling far less than he was just a few days ago but we're still a long way from being where I would like for us to be.

One more thing while I'm posting I've been periodically saying whoa as I stop moving when we're out walking together. I'll repeated whoa while I'm standing there and then telling him to come when I'm ready to carry on. I'm not giving corrections but I am giving praise when he does it correctly. At this point he seems to be learning the word well and will stop moving when I say whoa and stays relatively still until I give the release command. He's far from doing it perfectly every time but he's making progress. My question is, will this whoa introduction making formal whoa training easier or more difficult down the road? Also, he will sit about 10% of the time when he is on a whoa and I just ignore it - is that a problem given how young the dog is?

Thanks for all the help!

[Casper]

Your puppy doesnt need to know the things you are trying to teach him right now. Those are things an older dog needs to know. All you should be focusing on is him staying to the front and keeping a foward movement.

Here is an article that will better explain

http://huntsmith.com/articles/TheCheckCord.htm

Later for future reference this will help make your pup better at walking along side you

http://huntsmith.com/articles/TheCommandLead.htm

The Choke Chain is not the greatest training tool and should be advised not to be used

[stuartjeff]

Thanks for the link Casper, they are both helpful.

The lead training is something that I have to do out of necessity. I live in the city and the best exercise my dog can get during the week is out running/walking with me on a lead. I spent some time ignoring what he was doing while on the lead out of the belief that he was too young to have pressure applied to him. Well, that may be true but I must get his pulling under control before he hits 70lbs. At his current 25lbs he is already a workout on an hour-long walk. I just won't tolerate him pulling on me for the majority of our time walking - it really takes the fun out of the walk.

The whoa introduction was another thing that I wasn't going to do until later but after seeing this type of introduction suggested in "How to Help Your Bird Dog Train Himself" and seeing a very young dog up on the training table in the NAVHDA video I figured I'd start the introduction.

[ezzy333]

Stuart,

I agree with Casper that a choke chain should never be used. They are a wonderful tool to damage the throat and windpipe. If you need more control go to a pinch collar or one with some kinds of prongs that will help. You say he is learning and that is good but what you are asking is something that will take a life time to teach if you want the dog to walk with you with out showing interest in stopping to smell or wanting to investigate a smell he detects. And my concern would be that if he got to that point he wouldn't have any interest in hunting.

I have found that quick little jerks and/or a word of warning will take care of the problem when practised consistantly. Remember your pup is at the level of a 2 or 3 year old child and if you expect either to be trained the way you want at that age you are in the wrong place. Training is basically a life long job that you need to enjoy if you are to be successful.

Ezzy

[Casper]

IF your pup is at the end of the lead and pulling ina stright line "YOU" need to change things up. Before he hits the end you should give a tug--tug--tug encoraging him to move to one side or the other. You can do this wiht a 6 ft lead. Just because you live in the city does not mean you can not work on certain aspects of better learning.

A book that would be a great asset to read (if it hasnt been sugested already) is "Best way to train you gun dog" by Bill Tarrant.

FWIW

[gonehuntin']

I put a choker on them at about 6-8 months, when they're regular training starts. The Delmar Smith Wonder Lead is also excellent. If you buy a heeling stick, the pup won't tug at the lead.

[snips]

Get a Flexi-lead. Will give him room to exercize without pressure. I cannot see a choke chain on a young pup.

[Thor]

I agree with not using a choke chain. I would suggest using the Rick Smith lead. You can save yourself some money by going to the nearest ranch supply and buying a "piggin-string". If you don't know what it is just ask a clerk for help. I was really scepticle about it but it works very very well.