Gun Dog Forum

Hello everyone,
My dog (2 year old intact male GSP) has had problems being possessive over birds towards other dogs (He has no problems at all with humans). He doesn't have a problem playing with and/or hunting with other dogs. He has never been or shown possessiveness around food or toys towards dogs or humans. In fact he will lay down and whine while my golden has one of his bones. I don't like that he does this and in fact is kind of embarrassing. I don't like aggressive dogs at all and would like to get this fixed. Thanks

Be careful with this because correction can lead to not liking a bird in mouth or worse.
At its root--this is a pack thing.
In some way with care, the pup needs to know that you are alpha and you are displeased with that behavior.
If it is just a particular dog--its easier.

Without prejudice . More going on than in the OP .
Perhaps an evaluation or explanation from an experienced Trainer / or at best knowledgeable person with dogs to give their comments after seeing the dog and more Importantly You with the dog ... (Imho) .

I should've clarified that it's over dead birds that were just shot. Have you had any experience with it?

Golden1 wrote:I should've clarified that it's over dead birds that were just shot. Have you had any experience with it?

Yes , I have over 50 years experience of shooting ,and lots of dead birds . I was most lucky that I was a good shot . On other days I was even more fortunate that those with the gun , shot well.

Sorry, I didn't mean it in a smart "bleep" way. I meant it as in have you had experience with dog being possessive over dead birds to other dogs. Since you have been around gun dogs much longer than me. I could use all of the helpful info I can get.

Define exactly what the problem is. In detail, exactly.

gonehuntin' wrote:Define exactly what the problem is. In detail, exactly.

My dog retrieved a bird. (Which he usually doesn't do because I have not trained him yet). He brought the bird to me then when I took it from him he turned around and nailed another dog. In another time my dog and another dog went after a downed bird and once they got there a fight broke out over who got the bird. I don't know if this is common or not but I don't like my dog to be fighting over birds.

This bring's back a great memory. My Hannah was like that. Never bothered other dog's unless they wanted to take a look at the bird she was retrieving. Actually kind of funny. First time it happened was a water retrieve and another dog looked at her bird on the way by. She gave it a horrible look but came on in with the bird and gave it to me. Then she went after the other dog and cleaned it's clock! Later on in life she quit doing that but I generally only hunted her alone because of it. One of the sweetest dog's I ever had but don't even look at a bird in her mouth! God do I miss her, one of my two all time favorite dog's.

Golden1 wrote:Sorry, I didn't mean it in a smart "bleep" way. I meant it as in have you had experience with dog being possessive over dead birds to other dogs. Since you have been around gun dogs much longer than me. I could use all of the helpful info I can get.

1. Management
2. Training
3. Shaping behaviour
4. Breeding
5. Handler response
6. Situation
7. Basic Obedience
8. Temperament
9. Age of dog
10. Health mental development and Understanding between Dog and handler !
.....
11. Training
12. Training
13 . Training
14. (Is the Training that is being applied understood by both Handler and Dog ) .
More often , a short session with an experienced Trainer of both people and Dogs is worth its weight in Gold to cast an eye on both and give advice ,whether the recipient takes it on board and applies it , usually resolves or does not .

Golden1 wrote:

gonehuntin' wrote:Define exactly what the problem is. In detail, exactly.

My dog retrieved a bird. (Which he usually doesn't do because I have not trained him yet). He brought the bird to me then when I took it from him he turned around and nailed another dog. In another time my dog and another dog went after a downed bird and once they got there a fight broke out over who got the bird. I don't know if this is common or not but I don't like my dog to be fighting over birds.

NIce description, thank you. To me, it primarily breaks down to being an obedience issue. IF you had trained him, which you will HAVE to do, when he brings the bird to you, have him immediately sit. Tell you friends to control their dog's and keep them away from you while yours is delivering a bird.

Never, never, never, send two dog's after the same bird. You're asking for a fight. Obedience will solve all issues. I believe age will as well. That can go two ways though. Many times as a dog gets more birds and ages, problems like this will cure themselves. Sometimes not. Believe me, you do NOT want to create a fighter because because some dog's will fight to the death. Neutering will cure nothing. You AND your friends have to obedience train your dog's.

gonehuntin' wrote:

Golden1 wrote:

gonehuntin' wrote:Define exactly what the problem is. In detail, exactly.

My dog retrieved a bird. (Which he usually doesn't do because I have not trained him yet). He brought the bird to me then when I took it from him he turned around and nailed another dog. In another time my dog and another dog went after a downed bird and once they got there a fight broke out over who got the bird. I don't know if this is common or not but I don't like my dog to be fighting over birds.

NIce description, thank you. To me, it primarily breaks down to being an obedience issue. IF you had trained him, which you will HAVE to do, when he brings the bird to you, have him immediately sit. Tell you friends to control their dog's and keep them away from you while yours is delivering a bird.

Never, never, never, send two dog's after the same bird. You're asking for a fight. Obedience will solve all issues. I believe age will as well. That can go two ways though. Many times as a dog gets more birds and ages, problems like this will cure themselves. Sometimes not. Believe me, you do NOT want to create a fighter because because some dog's will fight to the death. Neutering will cure nothing. You AND your friends have to obedience train your dog's.

This X2!!!

GH is way more experienced than I am, but I can certainly tell you that I have experienced what OP is describing as cures and he's 100% I had a similar problem with mine and a longtime hunting partners dog. Cure is obedience, mainly heel/stay until you send them for the retrieve. Keep a lid on the OB, probably force fetch to get a better handle on everything too.

The other thing is that your dog is only 1/2 the problem...While I am able to handle my dog away/around it, I'm not so naive as to think that if I sent him on a retrieve and someone else wasn't paying attention and THEIR dog created problems, I wouldn't be able to stop a negative situation happening.

The worst chronic offender was a female lab that would body check faster dogs to get their on the retrieve...which was fine since the other dogs were generally accepting of it. Until we hunted with a dog that wasn't (mine.) Mine isn't dog aggressive or people aggressive or anything else but that tripped him over the edge. Now, I'll generally hunt a different part of lake/marsh/field if I can than that dog, but he doesn't leave my side til I see her handler's leashed her.

Was the other dog the same dog? Because I also know that sometimes, two dogs that are otherwise peaceful/docile/nice dogs hate each other.

Nip it in the bud because they do learn "How" to fight and all of a sudden your "fight" that previously resembled to trash-talking hockey players has morphed into a dog that has learned how to hit another dog and do some damage in a hurry. I've seen that firsthand too. And unfortunately it often doesn't matter how poorly behaved, untrained, or wrong the dog with the biggest vet bill is, as the "winner" is often faced with being disinvited or his dog is, being the one with the "labeled" dog, being the one pressured to pay vet bills, etc...

My dog has always been the one to instigate these fights. Just this past weekend it occurred again. This time it was at the end of the hunt and I threw the birds on the ground and another dog came up to them and mine went after her. Before the hunt started they were running around playing together. It 100% occurs only with birds. I obviously grabbed him immediately, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed really stop it.

We just told you how to cure it. OBEDIENCE. If he's sitting at your side, he can't fight another dog. What the heck was the other dog doing investigating the ducks? Keep them apart. Easy.

Golden1 wrote:My dog has always been the one to instigate these fights. Just this past weekend it occurred again. This time it was at the end of the hunt and I threw the birds on the ground and another dog came up to them and mine went after her. Before the hunt started they were running around playing together. It 100% occurs only with birds. I obviously grabbed him immediately, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed really stop it.

That would be :

1. Management
2. Training
3. Shaping behaviour
4. Breeding
5. Handler response
6. Situation
7. Basic Obedience
8. Temperament
9. Age of dog
10. Health mental development and Understanding between Dog and handler !
.....
11. Training
12. Training
13 . Training
14. (Is the Training that is being applied understood by both Handler and Dog ) .
More often , a short session with an experienced Trainer of both people and Dogs is worth its weight in Gold to cast an eye on both and give advice ,whether the recipient takes it on board and applies it , usually resolves or does not .
.....
Or simply Not throwing the birds on the ground for the dog to Guard ?.....In this particular moment ...In the dogs life .

My experience, limited as it may be, is that 95%+ of my dogs problems are a direct result of my poor or improper training and/or handling! I always hate to face it, but the professional trainer I use, is great at observing a person working their dog, and then giving honest, if not somewhat painful, explanation of what the owner/trainer needs to do to correct the problem.

Seems like other trainers on this website provide the same, somewhat painful, yet correct advice...

Go with it and you will be amazed! Training only can end when the dog crosses the 'Rainbow Bridge', if one beleives in that sort of thing.

Thanks for all of the helpful information. I definitely know I am not a great trainer in any way. I will definitely work on the things you all have mentioned. Thanks

Golden1 wrote:My dog has always been the one to instigate these fights. Just this past weekend it occurred again. This time it was at the end of the hunt and I threw the birds on the ground and another dog came up to them and mine went after her. Before the hunt started they were running around playing together. It 100% occurs only with birds. I obviously grabbed him immediately, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed really stop it.

gonehuntin' wrote:We just told you how to cure it. OBEDIENCE. If he's sitting at your side, he can't fight another dog. What the heck was the other dog doing investigating the ducks? Keep them apart. Easy.

GH gave you the correct answer on a broad scale.

I'll break it down, and I don't mean this as snarky or condescending.

You need to abandon the idea of ever being able to have him running around dead birds when other dogs are loose. You are going to have to be a lot more vigilant moving forward.

That isn't an indictment of your socialization or training up to this point, or a criticism of your dog. We told a guy at a training day that he couldn't throw a dead bird out for his dog to retrieve during a group training session with 15 dogs of varying levels of training and maturity and temperament. We didn't really care that his dog was trustworthy and about to earn her VC; there is a time and place for honor drills.

You do need to make sure that the dog understands in no uncertain terms that "Sit Means Sit," and "Heel Means Heel" and if two dead birds get up off the pile and walk away, he watches them waddle off til you tell him to go. Kennel him first thing at the end of the hunt, or put all the birds up and away in the cooler immediately at the end of the hunt, and probably both. And bring a leash and leash him if you must when appropriate. And don't throw birds on the ground.

JONOV wrote:and if two dead birds get up off the pile and walk away, he watches them waddle off til you tell him to go. And don't throw birds on the ground.

:roll:
That is just great . ...Makes sense ...........................