Gun Dog Forum

Hello,
Getting 1st grouse dog (hopefully grouse-ey this month, a french brittany.
Looking for advice about training and what are the predominant training methods used these days?
Books, video series suggestion?
I have watched many youtube videos about teaching whoa, heal, etc. Curious if there is a go to source for training most agree on? Probably opening a can of worms.

Anywho, thanks to all in advance.




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Welcome to the forum. Let us know if there is ever anything we can do to make your time here positive.
You posted initially in the right place, but I felt you'd get more help if your post went here.

Sharon wrote:Welcome to the forum. Let us know if there is ever anything we can do to make your time here positive.

is there a section on this forum for ruffed grouse gun dog training?

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Welcome Grousefern and congrats on the latest addition! May this be the start of a wonderful and rewarding relationship.

Best kept secret in bird hunting. Ruff Grouse is simply a bird. Has quirks other birds don't have! Been a long time since I've done much grouse hunting and then did it with a Springer. Have done it just a bit with a pointing dog in Alaska and did notice they are more apt to stand around in plain view than other games birds and really not a lot harder to hold. Where it seem's to get hard with grouse is the cover they like. Usually pretty heavy and I suspect a lot of bumped birds are a result of the cover your dog goes through to get to them! Everybody say's it takes a couple years of hunting grouse to get a dog tuned in good, I don't doubt that. Around here I'm going to concentrate on grouse again because I don't get around chukar hills very well anymore. Haven't been able to find many yet and maybe that is the hardest part of it! My Squirt and Stormy have very little experience on grouse so I'm gonna be happy this year just to get them into some. Then the grouse themselves can train them how to work a grouse! If you watch newly trained dogs in the field on most any game bird you should notice the birds giving the dogs new lesson's in manners when you though your dog was perfect. let them be, the wild bird isn't very co-operative in training but is a great teacher for a trained dog.

Get one good book that you can understand and follow it! Don't insert one guy's little secret into any other guy's program. Stay the course till your through it. You will be surprised what you learn in the training process and at some point you will probably make a correction of modify something on your own that simply works better for you. That you can't do until you have some idea where your going in the first place. Dog training is a breeze, such a breeze it can seem really complicated. if your having a problem, easiest way to work through it is to try to think like the dog!

I use Perfect Start, Perfect Finish and Perfect Retrieve DVDs. The grouse will teach the rest. I also take my puppies on walks daily in natural cover where they learn to navigate terrain, use their nose, become bold and find game.

Welcome to the forum. I can't help you with books etc. ….. "Over the pond" has different ideas to those of us on this side of the pond (Scotland.) I can say that brits are a terrific hunting and pointing breed. Some of them aren't too keen on retrieving though so make sure you get your pup enjoying playing retrieve games .

We don't have ruffed grouse in Scotland but I have been told by Canadians that very few dogs become really good grouse dogs ? Maybe a lot of practice on that specific bird species is the answer to this ?

Bill T.

grousefern wrote:

is there a section on this forum for ruffed grouse gun dog training?

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Probably Not , But there is a section on Gun Dog Training .The quarry is not or need not be specific . How you approach it is .

My best ruffed grouse dogs were started on grouse before they hunted pheasants. My biggest problem has always been how to flush the bird to get a decent shot....Cj

You could send the dog into flush instead of doing that yourself maybe ? I've done that many times in thick woodlands when pheasant or woodcock shooting . Why buy a dog then bark yourself ?

Bill T.

Trekmoor wrote:You could send the dog into flush instead of doing that yourself maybe ? I've done that many times in thick woodlands when pheasant or woodcock shooting . Why buy a dog then bark yourself ?

Bill T.

Before people told me pointing dogs can't do that, my dogs all flushed on command.

My question, is do I get a better shot being closer to the bird when I flush it or is it better to hope the bird flies where I get a shot if the dog flushes it?

The jury is still out on that question......Cj

In some woodland situations it is just about impossible to take a shot no matter what you or the dog does. I found though, that if I took a good look at the cover all around the pointing dog then I could often place myself in a good spot to shoot from. Since the dog "knew" where the bird was , I didn't have to go in among the "nasty stuff" to try to kick the bird up. The dog moved in to flush on command and provided the bird hadn't ran from the point (I'm told ruffed grouse often do that) I could take the shot.

I have shot over spaniels in thick woodlands and I did find that more difficult because the spaniel did not give me time to position myself for a shot. In general, I prefer to shoot over a hunt-point-retriever.


Bill T.

This discussion of "flushing" brings back a great memory...and a reminder (to myself) never to hold back on asking "how".

A friend of my Dad's had a really nice shorthair that he had taught to execute a maneuver, on command.

The dog would be on point, locked up. The owner would get into the best possible position for a shot and command... "Inky...ADVANCE", whereupon Inky the dog would take precisely ONE step and resume point. If the bird did not flush he would repeat the command and the dog would once again, take precisely ONE step and lock back up.

For the single hunter, this is an incredibly useful technique. It certainly improves the odds when you are in a position to shoot, rather than tangled up in briars when the bird flushes.

My failure in this story is that I never asked the man how he did that. I had multiple opportunities to ask, but was too young... and too dumb. That gentleman is long dead and I still regret not asking "how".

I was not a very experienced grouse hunter, but I found that a piece of advice I was given by someone who was a very experienced grouse hunter had helped me be more successful.

When I surveyed the forest canopy after locating the dog on point and saw an opening in that canopy...if I positioned myself so that I could get a shot if the grouse flies toward that opening, I had a decent percentage at taking that grouse. My limited experience indicates to me that, in fact, the grouse do actually tend to fly toward such openings.

RayG

birddogger2 wrote:

The dog would be on point, locked up. The owner would get into the best possible position for a shot and command... "Inky...ADVANCE", whereupon Inky the dog would take precisely ONE step and resume point. If the bird did not flush he would repeat the command and the dog would once again, take precisely ONE step and lock back up.

For the single hunter, this is an incredibly useful technique. It certainly improves the odds when you are in a position to shoot, rather than tangled up in briars when the bird flushes.

My failure in this story is that I never asked the man how he did that. I had multiple opportunities to ask, but was too young... and too dumb. That gentleman is long dead and I still regret not asking "how".


RayG

Hi Ray, it is very likely that this man did not deliberately teach his dog the "one step then stop" technique. In Britain where all pointing dogs are supposed to flush on command that dog would probably have been knocked back a point or two for behaving that way during a trial. The judges would consider the dog to be a bit "sticky."

I have lost marks in trials when one of my dogs did exactly as you just described. I had done a bit too much fussing over the pup when she was on point. This happened because she was my first ever pointing dog and I had read only American books on the subject of pointing dogs. Too much praise or fussing, done too often can make some dogs what I'd now call "sticky" ….which is exactly what you lads over the pond want to see in a pointing dog because you usually walk in to kick up the birds yourself.

I had unintentionally taught my pup to be sticky and when I eventually did command the flush she'd only move forward one step at a time then stop after each step until I recommanded the flush. That seems to be what happened with the dog you mentioned ?

This behaviour does not happen with all pups or dogs but it does happen to some of them …..I see that in versatile dog trials here and at pointer setter trials. In general we like our dogs to flush to just one command so those dogs that are a bit sticky lose points and the dogs that are very sticky, which is what is wanted in the U.S.A., get eliminated here.

I have talked about "our way" v "your way" fairly often with other British pointing dog owners and we just don't understand why your lot insist on doing yourselves something that the dog could do so easily for you …..and probably do it better !

Bill T.