Young pup and live birds

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luvthemud
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Young pup and live birds

Post by luvthemud » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:01 pm

My 3 month old pup has been exposed to quail about a half dozen times now. The first 2 or 3 times the birds were dead, and the last few times they were alive.

I have been letting him essentially have his way with them and have made it as fun as possible every time.

My question. Is...do I keep doing it this way for a while yet? He has started to point (stops and stares) at robins in the yard, but when I release quail with clipped wings, he just goes after them. I get the feeling that it is time to either stop letting him grab and play with the birds, or stop clipping their wings all together and let them fly?

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tekoa
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Re: Young pup and live birds

Post by tekoa » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:51 pm

I'm assuming you are training a GSP to point not flush.

If he's aggressively chasing and catching clip wing birds, I wouldn't let him catch any more birds. I'd give him some time ( a couple of months at least) in the field and yard training (recall, heel, no,kennel, etc), to gain confidence and some degree of control. You can put him on birds that he cannot catch (Pigeons are best, pen raised Quail are generally not good fliers and are easy to catch.) once in a while until you are ready to introduce him to birds and guns.

After introduction to guns and birds, training him to point will involve him chasing but not catching birds until he realizes he can't catch them and begins to point. He should never catch a bird again, unless you shoot it and he retrieved it.

Before I'd proceed any further, if I intended to train myself,I'd have a complete training plan. Use one of the training systems from any of the great trainers , Hickox, Smith, Hann, Higgins, etc.........

Good Luck............

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luvthemud
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Re: Young pup and live birds

Post by luvthemud » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:29 am

tekoa wrote:I'm assuming you are training a GSP to point not flush.

If he's aggressively chasing and catching clip wing birds, I wouldn't let him catch any more birds. I'd give him some time ( a couple of months at least) in the field and yard training (recall, heel, no,kennel, etc), to gain confidence and some degree of control. You can put him on birds that he cannot catch (Pigeons are best, pen raised Quail are generally not good fliers and are easy to catch.) once in a while until you are ready to introduce him to birds and guns.

After introduction to guns and birds, training him to point will involve him chasing but not catching birds until he realizes he can't catch them and begins to point. He should never catch a bird again, unless you shoot it and he retrieved it.

Before I'd proceed any further, if I intended to train myself,I'd have a complete training plan. Use one of the training systems from any of the great trainers , Hickox, Smith, Hann, Higgins, etc.........

Good Luck............

Ok, thanks! That confirms what I was thinking. Unfortunately the quail I have access to are far from what I would consider "hard flying", so even if not pulling flight feathers I fear he would be able to catch them.

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tekoa
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Re: Young pup and live birds

Post by tekoa » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:46 pm

No birds, no bird dog!

Pigeons are the answer..............Always fly hard and you don't need a dog training license.

I couldn't keep homers in my yard so I buy them for a buck apiece from the local pest control company, they trap several hundred pigeons a month and always have some available. When I start to train steady to wing and shot I buy a few pen raised Chukar for the launcher work. The dogs are more intense on game bird scent and the Chukar are good flyers when launched. They are expensive though. So I go back to pigeons for brush up training.

Of course wild birds are best if you have access to them. I think Wisconsin is one of the states that allows dog training on wild birds at any time except nesting season, as long as you don't shoot any.

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luvthemud
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Re: Young pup and live birds

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:15 am

tekoa wrote:No birds, no bird dog!

Pigeons are the answer..............Always fly hard and you don't need a dog training license.

I couldn't keep homers in my yard so I buy them for a buck apiece from the local pest control company, they trap several hundred pigeons a month and always have some available. When I start to train steady to wing and shot I buy a few pen raised Chukar for the launcher work. The dogs are more intense on game bird scent and the Chukar are good flyers when launched. They are expensive though. So I go back to pigeons for brush up training.

Of course wild birds are best if you have access to them. I think Wisconsin is one of the states that allows dog training on wild birds at any time except nesting season, as long as you don't shoot any.

I do have access to pigeons as well, although not for the crazy cheap price you do! I am planning on getting some launchers but at this point, I think they would scare the dog when launched so I have been holding off.

Yeah, besides nesting time, dogs can be run off leash on any public ground as far as I know. However, the issue is the number of wild birds is dismal.

I do agree that birds birds birds is a good thing, under the right circumstances. I am probably being a bit impatient though. I, with the help of my local NAVHDA chapter, want to train this dog on my own. My last dog I had professionally (and I use that term loosely) trained and that started at 3 months, so I guess I am worried that I am going to miss opportunities and end up causing the dog to not live up to his potential.

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Re: Young pup and live birds

Post by Sharon » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:04 pm

Last edited by Sharon on Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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shags
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Re: Young pup and live birds

Post by shags » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:52 pm

Your pup is only 3 months old, an infant. What do you expect to achieve with such a little guy?

You don't need to worry about bird work for 3-4 months yet, and even then there is no hurry. Doing too much too soon can mess him up faster than being patient and giving him time to grow up a little. You've seen already that you're teaching him to grab quail. Let him mature to where his point is stronger and things will be easier on both of you in the long run.

So you have some time to save up for those launchers and other training aids. Maybe you can start a coop of homers for yourself.

The puppy days fly by so fast, enjoy the pup as he is. He has the rest of his (hopefully long) life to be a bird dog.

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luvthemud
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Re: Young pup and live birds

Post by luvthemud » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:38 pm

shags wrote:Your pup is only 3 months old, an infant. What do you expect to achieve with such a little guy?

You don't need to worry about bird work for 3-4 months yet, and even then there is no hurry. Doing too much too soon can mess him up faster than being patient and giving him time to grow up a little. You've seen already that you're teaching him to grab quail. Let him mature to where his point is stronger and things will be easier on both of you in the long run.

So you have some time to save up for those launchers and other training aids. Maybe you can start a coop of homers for yourself.

The puppy days fly by so fast, enjoy the pup as he is. He has the rest of his (hopefully long) life to be a bird dog.
Thank you for the insight. As I mentioned, I know I am being too impatient. My last dog was being put through the paces at the 3 month age, and while he turned out to be a great dog, the pressure put on him was obvious.

Building a co-op is certainly on my radar! Would make things a lot easier.

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