First GSP, distracted training issues

Post Reply
nmorris
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:37 pm
Location: Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada

First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by nmorris » Tue May 16, 2017 5:04 pm

Hi everyone,

I am having serious issued getting my GSP to listen when outdoors. He is 8 months old, and has completed basic obedience training. While we're inside he will come, sit, and stay flawlessly. When I take him to the field, he has no interest in me. He will come to voice and whistle, though only when he feels like it or if he's tired.

We ran him off leash until he was 5 months, and after that his instincts took over and he will take off for a scent, bird, or even a blowing leaf. We now have a 75' rope we keep him on in the field, and he is pulling it hard most of the time. Him being over 60lbs already, its getting difficult for the wife. I'm somewhat overwhelmed with where to start with this, and very much want to be able to have him off leash without losing him. We have an e collar, though haven't been using it.

He knows the commands, the issue is teaching him that it's not an option. I know he's still young, for now I would be happy with keeping him from running away while off leash, and some advice for reinforcing the "come command" while he's distracted.

I have tried special treats just for "come", and pulling him to me on the rope after he doesn't listen to "come".
Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Nathan

randomnut
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:44 pm

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by randomnut » Tue May 16, 2017 6:34 pm

Coming from a fellow novice who is the worst "trainer". Don't give a command you can't or won't enforce. In you situation, I'd think collar conditioning would be next.

Me personally, I'd ditch the rope and e collar. Pup will learn a lot more on his own than you'll ever teach them. Go back to square one.

fishvik
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: Idaho Falls, ID

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by fishvik » Wed May 17, 2017 10:06 am

I guess I would keep with the checkcord and start the e-collar at a low setting. Have the dog drag the cord. When you give the come command, if the dog doesn't respond give them a jolt and reel them in. Praise him when he gets to you if he did it on his own or you had to reel him in. Keep him on a short cord and work him on a longer section as you progress. Don't over due it though. Let him explore and hunt but also keep him in control.

User avatar
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4636
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: NE WI.

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed May 17, 2017 11:29 am

Being able to enforce commands, consistency in training, challenging the dog on all commands. It's the consistency that is important. Every place, every time, every command. It's really very simple, you just have to do it.

I assume you have a good training program you're following?
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 8519
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by Sharon » Wed May 17, 2017 1:20 pm

E- collar training begins in the back yard , not the field, using a proper programme. Start there and then move to a larger enclosed area, then the field. At 8 months of age, wanting to hunt rather than come is a bonus.

edited for the age
Last edited by Sharon on Wed May 17, 2017 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

polmaise
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2597
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by polmaise » Wed May 17, 2017 2:10 pm

" He is 8 months old, and has completed basic obedience training."
Does he understand 'No' ?

nmorris
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:37 pm
Location: Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by nmorris » Wed May 17, 2017 5:12 pm

Thanks everyone for the prompt replies! Going to start by shortening the rope for and working on the training in the yard rather than the field, and slowly start the e collar conditioning. The more advice the better, I want to make sure I do this right the first time.

nmorris
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:37 pm
Location: Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by nmorris » Wed May 17, 2017 5:15 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Being able to enforce commands, consistency in training, challenging the dog on all commands. It's the consistency that is important. Every place, every time, every command. It's really very simple, you just have to do it.

I assume you have a good training program you're following?
I do not have a good training program, have been going mostly on the broad range of info found online. If you could recommend one I would be very interested . Thanks!

birddogger2
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
Location: Lower slower Delaware

NOT

Post by birddogger2 » Wed May 17, 2017 8:00 pm

Nathan -

You folks have already started. Unfortunately, you have allowed the dog to think that the rules he learned in the yard do not apply in the field.

What you need to do is to, in essence...start over.

I would do an obedience drill in the yard consisting of heel, stay or whoa and come...at a minimum. I would do the drill with a checkcord attached and either a prong or pinch collar on the dog. I would start with heel and make the dog heel and heel correctly. If not... pop the checkcord and correct the dog with the prong or pinch collar. Be insistent and be consistent. For the come command, I would start with two checkcords. Have your wife sit or stand across from you, with the dog in the middle. Take turns calling the dog to each person. if the dog comes slowly, pop the checkcord and reel him in. When he is by your sideor front(as you choose) one pat on the flank as a reward.
At some point in the yardwork, you should first overlay the e-collar giving very low momentary stims at the exactly same time as you pop the checkcord with the prong or pinch collar.

Once you have this foundation re-established in the yard, you need to move the operation into the field. You need to repeat the same drills in the field, so the dog understands that the rules are the same here in the field as they were in the yard. I let my youngsters drag a checkcord in the field attached to a flat collar...but they are also hooked up to an e-collar for control and corrections. I do not hold the checkcord, but let it drag. The e-collar is the means of correction and control. The only time I will pick up the checkcord is when I approach the dog on point. I prefer to do this by hand as opposed to e-stim. That is how I was taught and I am comfortable with doing some parts of the training by putting my hands on the dog. You may be different.

As Gonehuntin' asked...: "Are you following a program?" If not... you really should be. There are several good ones to choose from. Pick one you are comfortable with following and stick to it. Believe it or not...they ALL work and will get you and your dog to where you want to be. Some folks are wired differently than others and may be more comfortable with one approach over another. If you, the trainer, are more comfortable and more confident with a particular approach or method, it is a virtual certainty that the dog will progress better and faster with a method the trainer is comfortable with.

Patience and persistence is key. Be consistent and insistent. A healthy sense of humor helps a lot as well.

RayG

cjhills
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:37 am
Location: aitkin,mn

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by cjhills » Thu May 18, 2017 6:56 am

My biggest question is how the heck do you use a 75 foot checkcord and why would you need that?..........................Cj

User avatar
Cicada
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:10 pm
Location: Genelle BC

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by Cicada » Thu May 18, 2017 10:08 am

Lots of great advise given.
He sounds like a lot like a dog I had 20 years ago working him on an ecollar was my only solution. After his first season of hunting he was tuning it in and as long as I had a gun he stayed within sight. By the time he was 3 he was a machine none of my other dogs could work heavy cover and hold birds as well as he did.

Have you given him any birds yet? Have you given him any gun introduction? And how much time are you training. I always thought I was doing the right amount of training but once I retired I realized that work takes up a lot of dog time.

Be patient, stay calm and try not to worry when he buggers off to the next county looking for that covey he found last week.

Grant
PS I wish I had a GPS for my GSP 20 years ago!

User avatar
deseeker
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 990
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Blair, Nebraska

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by deseeker » Fri May 19, 2017 7:31 am

You are getting a lot of good advice. I had a pro tell me the dog doesn't know the command until you have him where he'll do the command right 100% of the time at at least 7 DIFFERENT locations--after that then start adding more and more distractions to the training(kids in the distance, birds walking and flying around, other dogs in the distance, load noises, etc.) Good luck with your training. :D

birddogger2
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
Location: Lower slower Delaware

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by birddogger2 » Fri May 19, 2017 10:37 am

cjhills wrote:My biggest question is how the heck do you use a 75 foot checkcord and why would you need that?..........................Cj
C'mon Cj. Be nice.

The OP has already admitted they don't know what they should do. They asked for help. That is the main reason I am on here. I know that it is the same for others.

First time bird dog owners can be at a loss regarding how to deal effectively with the awesome drive of a well bred bird dog. They may not fully understand that the only way you can "control" that level of drive, without squelching it, is to show the dog how to co-operate with you.

Those of us who have worked fairly extensively with these kinds of dogs, tend to take some of this knowledge for granted.

Nathan. ASK AWAY. The only dumb question is the one you DO NOT ASK. If you are not comfortable asking on an open forum, send a PM.

RayG

cjhills
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:37 am
Location: aitkin,mn

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by cjhills » Fri May 19, 2017 12:11 pm

I guess I do not see how my question was not "being nice" Sorry. I thought it was a good question. I could not use one that long. In fact The only reason I have a collar on my 4 month old puppy is for him to carry his rabies tag and my phone number. But then I am not the Expert........................Cj
Last edited by cjhills on Fri May 19, 2017 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

polmaise
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2597
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by polmaise » Fri May 19, 2017 2:45 pm

Like cj...
If the issues from the OP is distraction ,any of them 75 foot away are harder to remedy than them 1 foot away. . That's nothing to do with being nice or not . Just Common sense.
....
Coincidentally, I have a dog in for training (but that has an issue of wanting to eat 'sheep poo' ) even on lead ! ..So I shortened the lead to 2 inches from my hand .

birddogger2
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
Location: Lower slower Delaware

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by birddogger2 » Fri May 19, 2017 7:58 pm

cjhills wrote:I guess I do not see how my question was not "being nice" Sorry. I thought it was a good question. I could not use one that long. In fact The only reason I have a collar on my 4 month old puppy is for him to carry his rabies tag and my phone number. But then I am not the Expert........................Cj

Cj-

We both know that a 75 ft. cord is not a good idea for a whole multitude of reasons. We both know that restraining a bird dog in the field with a cord, of ANY length, is almost certainly not going to get us and the dog to where we want to be. We both know that there are better ways to encourage a bird dog to work with us and for us. We both know that there are at least a half dozen ways to get from here to there with a bird dog.

But all of that is not really important.

The important thing is that NOW the OP knows it too. The OP asked for help. He got some help from several folks. I hope he asks for more.

My main goal on these boards is simply to try to help the novice bird dog trainer to become better, if I can, so they can enjoy their dogs and their sport as much as I do. No more, no less.

RayG

cjhills
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:37 am
Location: aitkin,mn

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by cjhills » Fri May 19, 2017 8:13 pm

birddogger2 wrote:
cjhills wrote:I guess I do not see how my question was not "being nice" Sorry. I thought it was a good question. I could not use one that long. In fact The only reason I have a collar on my 4 month old puppy is for him to carry his rabies tag and my phone number. But then I am not the Expert........................Cj

Cj-

We both know that a 75 ft. cord is not a good idea for a whole multitude of reasons. We both know that restraining a bird dog in the field with a cord, of ANY length, is almost certainly not going to get us and the dog to where we want to be. We both know that there are better ways to encourage a bird dog to work with us and for us. We both know that there are at least a half dozen ways to get from here to there with a bird dog.

But all of that is not really important.

The important thing is that NOW the OP knows it too. The OP asked for help. He got some help from several folks. I hope he asks for more.

My main goal on these boards is simply to try to help the novice bird dog trainer to become better, if I can, so they can enjoy their dogs and their sport as much as I do. No more, no less.

RayG
Ray:
How about you Just get off my back and let me write what I want without your insults and criticism. I really do not care what your goal is.Thank You..
It is dangerous and makes no sense to use a 75 foot check cord. I hope he knows that now too.......Cj

Timewise65
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:30 am
Location: Missouri

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by Timewise65 » Sat May 20, 2017 11:02 am

Coming from a Retriever guy, I would go back to the beginning obedience as others have recommended. One of the hardest things to do with a dog is take yard training to field training and then even worse start hunting live birds! Each phase will usually include going back and reinforcing commands and training until the dog get's it. At 8 month I am suspect he is just not mature enough to control his natural desired when out in the field, maybe slow down and give him a couple more months of yard training.

Secondarily, I am a firm believer in Force Fetching (FF). I did not see you mention this in his training. This is best done by someone who knows the proper way to do it. And I prefer that the e collar be included in the FF training. In this way the dog is collar conditioned and understands when he feels the collar that he must obey. Then if he 100% knows his commands (Obedience Training) the collar becomes a great training aid. Never use a collar on a dog that is not clearing understanding the commands you give.....

Good Luck

birddogger2
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
Location: Lower slower Delaware

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by birddogger2 » Sat May 20, 2017 12:34 pm

cjhills wrote:
birddogger2 wrote:
cjhills wrote:I guess I do not see how my question was not "being nice" Sorry. I thought it was a good question. I could not use one that long. In fact The only reason I have a collar on my 4 month old puppy is for him to carry his rabies tag and my phone number. But then I am not the Expert........................Cj

Cj-

We both know that a 75 ft. cord is not a good idea for a whole multitude of reasons. We both know that restraining a bird dog in the field with a cord, of ANY length, is almost certainly not going to get us and the dog to where we want to be. We both know that there are better ways to encourage a bird dog to work with us and for us. We both know that there are at least a half dozen ways to get from here to there with a bird dog.

But all of that is not really important.

The important thing is that NOW the OP knows it too. The OP asked for help. He got some help from several folks. I hope he asks for more.

My main goal on these boards is simply to try to help the novice bird dog trainer to become better, if I can, so they can enjoy their dogs and their sport as much as I do. No more, no less.

RayG
Ray:
How about you Just get off my back and let me write what I want without your insults and criticism. I really do not care what your goal is.Thank You..
It is dangerous and makes no sense to use a 75 foot check cord. I hope he knows that now too.......Cj
How about you trying not to be dismissive and demeaning to folks who are just trying to do the right thing by their dogs. I was NOT being insulting to you, just critical, but perhaps you take criticism as an insult. That my man, is YOUR problem and you need to deal with it.

So... NO, I will continue to call them as I see them. If you don't like it, you have all the options. I'll let the moderators do any policing they think appropriate.

It does take a certain amount of courage to admit in an open forum , such as this, that you messed up and need help. Instead of poking fun at someone who cares enough about doing the right thing by their dog to go on a forum like this, I would rather show a measure of respect for that kind of courage and try to be helpful.

RayG

shags
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2586
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:57 pm

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by shags » Sat May 20, 2017 1:56 pm

Sharon wrote:E- collar training begins in the back yard , not the field, using a proper programme. Start there and then move to a larger enclosed area, then the field. At 8 months of age, wanting to hunt rather than come is a bonus.

edited for the age
Yes to this ^^^

What you experiencing is normal...adolescent dogs go through a stage of what they might think of as 'independence' but what *I* call ' blowing me off'.

I would collar condition your dog for the recall command in the back yard or some safe enclosed space like a schoolyard ( please take poop bags if you go there, picking up keeps everyone happy). Then you can go to the field with the ecollar to reienforce your recall if the pup ignores you. Be sure to collar condition properly - it's way too easy to mess up and put you and the dog back quite a bit. If you don't have an experienced trainer to help you, look to youtube or various bird dog training sites. Always remember you don't want to apply electrical stimulation that makes your pup jump or yelp; keep the stim low as possible, looking for signs like lip licking, swallowing, or ear twitching.

For my pups, I take them to the field and let them rip. At a certain point - like if they take a wrong turn or don't turn with me, I give my recall command, give them second to respond, then stimulate. Usually that's all it takes, but once in a while I've had to jack up the juice one notch and call again. I don't fuss or anything when they come to me, but encourage them with 'OK, let's go!'

Limit yourself to one or two recalls per session. Don't nag with multiple recalls. When it's time to go home, save a few minutes for some happy-timing so your pup doesn't associate obedience with the end of fun, and end your sessions at different places and times on your course.

Once the pups know I can enforce my command from a distance, they are pretty reliable. But from then on, they always wear that ecollar afield, until I know for certain I can trust them to recall under any circumstances. IME all pups need a little reminder now and again until they are 100%.

Good luck with your pup, he sounds like a good one.

polmaise
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2597
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by polmaise » Sat May 20, 2017 4:50 pm

shags wrote:
Sharon wrote:E- collar training begins in the back yard , not the field, using a proper programme. Start there and then move to a larger enclosed area, then the field. At 8 months of age, wanting to hunt rather than come is a bonus.

edited for the age
Yes to this ^^^

Once the pups know I can enforce my command from a distance, they are pretty reliable. But from then on, they always wear that ecollar afield, until I know for certain I can trust them to recall under any circumstances. IME all pups need a little reminder now and again until they are 100%.

Good luck with your pup, he sounds like a good one.
Hmmm? Is Your Yes to the edit or the original or just to the poster ? ..for sake.
On the whole reply it looks really sweet ! ... Like all politically correct.
So ..what if the pup decides it doesn't fit in your program ?..or Sharon's ..or any one else's for that matter ..? btw ..what is a 'Proper Program' ? ..I digress...Pretty reliable ? ..Is that like ..if you wish or often or when you like ?..or enforce with a collar if you don't ? ...sounding different now ..Not all sweet any more ?...So why the collar if you can enforce your command from a distance ? ...Your words .not mine

shags
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2586
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:57 pm

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by shags » Sat May 20, 2017 6:17 pm

A proper program would be a method tried and true. Like Smith's, for instance. It means don't just wing it.

If dog and program aren't a good fit, try another. Just stay with something proven rather than off the cuff methods of a new, inexperienced trainer.

Do you know any 8 month old pups with a good measure of independence that are 100% reliable? I don't. They test handlers. So even when they are 'pretty reliable' they need to know that commands can be enforced from a distance, via Reddy Kilowatt in this instance, until they are 100%. My dogs got to that stage around 2- 2 1/2 years. Even so they may forget every few years and need a reminder. They're dogs, not robots.

polmaise
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2597
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by polmaise » Sat May 20, 2017 7:04 pm

shags wrote:A proper program would be a method tried and true.
They're dogs, not robots.
All in the same sentence ? :lol:

nmorris
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:37 pm
Location: Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by nmorris » Sat May 20, 2017 8:11 pm

Seeing lots of very helpful advice here, thanks to everyone! The idea behind the 75' rope was to let him run in a field, as we have no fenced in areas handy and he has disappeared on us several times now. We keep him exercised, though the running off is becoming an issue. I work away 3 nights a week so until we can find a better fenced in area its what we came up with for the wife while I'm gone. We wont be using it while training, just for play time.

Did some yard work with him today, though he listens very well while on the CC in the yard. Going to keep that up until its solid enough to try and transition to the field. Also, he has not been introduced to birds, and we will be starting to introduce light gunfire shortly. Started with a cap gun, he was curious but by no means scared of it.

Bird dogs are not very common in this area, I don't personally know anyone who has trained them, any gun dog trainers or clubs near by, so I will be pestering the people of this forum quite often I imagine.

Thanks again, and like before, any advice or training program recommendations are very much appreciated! Certainly helps knowing that people have had success with the methods mentioned.

cjhills
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:37 am
Location: aitkin,mn

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by cjhills » Sun May 21, 2017 10:41 am

nmorris:
I hope you are aware that I meant no "ill will" with my post about the long rope.
"Ray" generally has some problem with anything I write. It is just how things are. He gets something out of it, I guess, so that is fine with me.
A rope like that is extremely dangerous to both the handler and the dog.
There are dogs who just are not bred to hunt with people and they will be a battle and not a lot of fun for there whole life.
Gun intro without birds is noise conditioning and not a lot of value.
It may be worth your time and expense to have your dog evaluated by professional trainer if you can locate one you are comfortable with. Most will want to see the dog and not diagnose the issue in a email.
I use George Hickox's e collar intro. It is easy to understand and works well.
Perfection Kennels DVDs are good but require a lot of birds and help.
Sorry, If my post upset you it was not intended that way. Good Luck with the dog.......................Cj

User avatar
Cicada
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:10 pm
Location: Genelle BC

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by Cicada » Sun May 21, 2017 12:11 pm


nmorris
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:37 pm
Location: Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by nmorris » Sun May 21, 2017 4:07 pm

cjhills: No harm done about the rope, no worries. I will check out Hickox e collar intro for sure.

Grant: I just looked into the link you attached, looks like a great place. It is nearly 3hrs drive from my place, which isn't too bad for day trips on the weekend. I will contact them about local trainers and advice. I have also found a NAVHDA chapter about 2.5 hours away in the southern part of NB which I imagine could be very helpful so I will be contacting them as well. Thanks!

birddogger2
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
Location: Lower slower Delaware

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by birddogger2 » Sun May 21, 2017 7:08 pm

nmorris wrote:Seeing lots of very helpful advice here, thanks to everyone! The idea behind the 75' rope was to let him run in a field, as we have no fenced in areas handy and he has disappeared on us several times now. We keep him exercised, though the running off is becoming an issue. I work away 3 nights a week so until we can find a better fenced in area its what we came up with for the wife while I'm gone. We wont be using it while training, just for play time.

Did some yard work with him today, though he listens very well while on the CC in the yard. Going to keep that up until its solid enough to try and transition to the field. Also, he has not been introduced to birds, and we will be starting to introduce light gunfire shortly. Started with a cap gun, he was curious but by no means scared of it.

Bird dogs are not very common in this area, I don't personally know anyone who has trained them, any gun dog trainers or clubs near by, so I will be pestering the people of this forum quite often I imagine.

Thanks again, and like before, any advice or training program recommendations are very much appreciated! Certainly helps knowing that people have had success with the methods mentioned.
Nathan-

If you work on the "here" or come command in the yard with a checkcordand eventually even with that 75' cord, the goal is for the dog to respond very quickly with the first verbal command. When the dog does not respond instantly, a pop on the checkcord would be the next "cue", with the final cue being physicaly reeled in.

I suggest that you do that in the yardand, with the e-collar placed high up on the dog's neck, right behind the ears, a pop on the checkcord and a simultaneous, low level "nick on the e-collar can be used to overlay the command, with the goal of eventually replacing the physical checkcord with the electronic one.

As was suggested, you can take the dog into the field, on a checkcord and repeat the yardwork drills. Do as many sessions as it takes, keeping each session fairly short and ending with a happy dog. Eventually, you can just let the checkcord drag or even take it off completely, becasue the dog will have been conditioned to "come in" on command. You goal should be to have the dog understand that if it comes in when called, it is pretty free to do what it wants the rest of the time. The beauty of this approach is that you can relax and be comfortable with your dog...off lead... and the dog can be confident and independent, and still be under control.

As mentioned by others, dogs will test you and you need to be able to respond in a timely manner. The e-collar(electronic checkcord) gives you that ability with none of the drawbacks of a physical checkcord.


Navhda chapters generally have a fairly wide range of trainer experience, so you should get to see a bunch of dogs doing some of the things you want to do with yours. I would definitely go see what they are all about. The chapter we have down by me has some really nice folks.

As I said previously, ask away.

RayG

User avatar
DeLo727
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:15 pm
Location: Wilmington, NY

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by DeLo727 » Wed May 24, 2017 11:48 am

It really just sounds like the dog needs to be reigned in. Work him at shorter ranges under complete control and start working in the ecollar. I start with tone. You cant rush this at all. You are going to be hunting with this rocketship for 10-15 years. What's a little more time in the training regiment. My dog was over a year old when he heard his first pistol, take your time and enjoy the process. Obedience is the foundation for all field commands and in my humble opinion, obedience needs to be rock solid before you start giving him some freedom. I think you're doing fine, just don't put any pressure on him or yourself. Some dogs learn quick, others take a very long time. My pooch would never be where he is now if I rushed him through it, I don't have the skill to push my way through his training.

Scott Linden
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:44 pm
Location: Bend, OR

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by Scott Linden » Sun May 28, 2017 6:39 pm

All the kind people with good hearts, I echo their recommendations about transitioning to the e-collar. But I also wonder why nobody has mentioned training the dog to seek you out in the field. Cooperation, obedience, whatever it is called, while pup was still young, I've taught mine to keep an eye out for me ... hiding around the corner of the house, behind trees, etc. in the right proportion and at the right time - don't want to train dependence or boot-licking. I'm sure there are smarter folk than me out there and fully expect some to pooh-pooh this, but done in the right way, it encourages the dog to check in periodically, be aware of the handler, and work cooperatively rather than hunt for itself. Tougher with a bold, independent dog, but started early enough, it might have helped.

Just sayin'.
Follow the hunter with the longest nose!
http://scottlindenoutdoors.com

User avatar
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4636
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: NE WI.

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon May 29, 2017 5:35 am

By hiding from the dog you take away his independence in the field. Most of us try to build confidence and range into a dog, not the opposite. That's why we work to build great range in the field without restriction and teach the dog obedience as a different issue.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1915
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by Trekmoor » Mon May 29, 2017 6:07 am

I have found this thread to be an interesting one as I am at present trying to train a bitch lab pup that is only 4 months old to do a simple recall .....and it isn't proving to be easy ! She is very nearly the most independently minded puppy I have ever owned ! I have never encountered this level of "independence" from any lab puppy and I've trained quite a few .

She often just goes her own way and couldn't really care less if I hide from her behind trees etc. .....which is my usual "trick." I don't use check cords or e-collars but I do need to use something so I now use her dinner and keep her kibble in my pocket when I take her into the woods for some free running. If I call and she doesn't come she gets hungry and nothing else ! She gets the rest of her feed once we get home but I give her only small handfuls at a time out in the wood.
This has been fairly successful .....she does like to eat but to it I am adding the thing that I find most helpful in creating a working bond with gundogs. That thing is the retrieve.

A pup that likes retrieving will tend to return when called if a retrieve is given as soon as the pup returns. Even my hunt crazed spaniels come back from their "free hunts" among the woods because they expect a retrieve as a reward.

So those are my two ideas that may work for the O.P. ..... take food with you and be sure the pup is expecting a feed when you take it out into the fields.....dogs do like to eat and you DO control the food supply , make it work for it's grub ! The other one is to try to make the pup a very keen retriever inside the yard and then take it out to the field.....with a bumper as a "reward."
It may work for you .....and I very much hope it works for me with this rather unusual lab pup ! :roll:

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 8519
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by Sharon » Mon May 29, 2017 3:18 pm

Ah, you need a challenge in your old age. :)
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1915
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: First GSP, distracted training issues

Post by Trekmoor » Tue May 30, 2017 5:47 am

I've already got a challenge thank-you ......it is called "the wife !" :lol:

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

Post Reply