Gun Dog Forum

Working basic obedience with my Vizsla pup. She is 6 months now and is bird crazy. I am keeping training sessions short but daily. She is introduced to ecollar, has a pretty solid recall(every once in awhile if she is distracted will need a nick and then will come fine), her woah is getting better as she will stop and stand well on lead and getting much better off lead. I am happy with her progress in those departments. Heel is where we are struggling, she does it great while on lead, I sit and zag and she watches me and stays right where I want her with very few corrections. However I've tried to progress to dropping the lead or removing it and she is completely different. She might heel good for a short distance then will either stop and just stand or she will go into play mode. Put her back on lead and she is great again. I'm keeping at it on lead and trying to progress slowly. Any tips for helping her understand I want her to do it even when there is no cord attached?

Thanks!

Mike

Do you reward her with treats when she is performing correctly? Sounds to me that she's doing just fine. When she stops at heel, just bump her lightly with the collar then treat her when she catches up. It may be that whoa is her default command now and she thinks it will keep her out of trouble when she's unsure.

[quote="HuntEastAdventures"] I'm keeping at it on lead and trying to progress slowly. Any tips for helping her understand I want her to do it even when there is no cord attached?/quote]


You can go to a tab if you wish ( http://www.jjdog.com/pull-tabs), but I wouldn't worry. A six-month-old pup isn't likely to be reliable in off-lead heeling for very long no matter what you do. Don't push her.

that is where the ecollar comes in. I had my malinois at about the same age, heeled perfectly with a loose lead. Unsnap her, and she went straight to play mode. It took one ecollar correction to fix her, she knew what I wanted, just knew I couldn't make her do it!

HuntEastAdventures wrote: Any tips for helping her understand I want her to do it even when there is no cord attached?

Thanks!

Mike

Many call it a 'Transition' ..from cord to No cord . ..Hmmmm
I don't know about that stuff because mine don't have a cord on them until they are about 4 months old and it's only to show them the reins' ..rather like a Horse and a Bridle , before I put a saddle on them.
So I'm sorry I can't help You .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vnkroc0fA0

jstevens wrote:that is where the ecollar comes in. I had my malinois at about the same age, heeled perfectly with a loose lead. Unsnap her, and she went straight to play mode. It took one ecollar correction to fix her, she knew what I wanted, just knew I couldn't make her do it!

You, uh, feel that a Malinois and a Vizsla have similar characteristics, and that training techniques which are effective with a Malinois will be useful with a never-seen six-month-old Vizsla pup? Hmm.. I suspect some may be of a different opinion, based on the relative "hardness" and temperaments of the breeds.

Steve007 wrote:

jstevens wrote:that is where the ecollar comes in. I had my malinois at about the same age, heeled perfectly with a loose lead. Unsnap her, and she went straight to play mode. It took one ecollar correction to fix her, she knew what I wanted, just knew I couldn't make her do it!

You, uh, feel that a Malinois and a Vizsla have similar characteristics, and that training techniques which are effective with a Malinois will be useful with a never-seen six-month-old Vizsla pup? Hmm..

For what it's worth jstevens , That is Not where the ecollar comes in :roll: ...Play and heel work should be something learned and liked .(IMO) ..
But then someone greater than myself said ''You can make a dog do almost anything it's capable of doing.Get a dog to do what You want it to do requires a little bit more thought' .
as a ps ...It don't matter the breed .But some folks can only relate to a situation if the dog is the same breed and even color these days ??? ..pah! Had a client tell me that their dog won't do that because Yours is Black and white, and mine is Chocolate .. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCqGHuZqwAE

I have trained a number of different gundog breeds and a lot of non-gundog breeds using the same heelwork methods. I change the way I apply any corrections to suit the individual dog not the individual breed. Vizslas are often "softies" and too firm/harsh a correction is often not a good thing for that breed.

One "trick" you might try is to put two leads on the dog. Put on a thin but strong cord first but make it just a simple dogs head sized loop .....not a choke type knot. Then put on your usual lead and train as normal. Take off the "proper" lead after a while and when the dog strays use the cord to correct it. Then "rinse and repeat." Most dogs fall for this "trick" if the cord is kept slack and unobtrusive.
Do not forget to praise for the correct heel position at least as much as you correct for the wrong one ! Dogs work for praise.

Bill T.

polmaise wrote:

Steve007 wrote: You, uh, feel that a Malinois and a Vizsla have similar characteristics, and that training techniques which are effective with a Malinois will be useful with a never-seen six-month-old Vizsla pup? Hmm..

.
as a ps ...It don't matter the breed .But some folks can only relate to a situation if the dog is the same breed

Transparently incorrect, of course. While there is a variance with individuals which must be adjusted to, there is a WIDE difference between breeds in terms of hardness, temperament and mental development at the same age when comparing dogs bred for different purposes. There is a good reason why the Mailnois has taken over a great deal of military, schutzhund and police work and the Vizla has not. Your contention is false.

Assuming the dog is a sporting breed, all dogs are put through the same basic training, it is only the amount of pressure that varies.

All dog's are trained to do the same tasks in the same manner with only a variance in pressure.

gonehuntin' wrote:Assuming the dog is a sporting breed, all dogs are put through the same basic training, it is only the amount of pressure that varies.

All dog's are trained to do the same tasks in the same manner with only a variance in pressure.

True and the same applies to all training. We teach different things and breeds do tend to differ as do individuals within the breeds and the main difference in any training is adjusting the pressure or force that you use for each dog no matter what you are training. At least that is my experience.

Steve007 wrote:

polmaise wrote:

Steve007 wrote: You, uh, feel that a Malinois and a Vizsla have similar characteristics, and that training techniques which are effective with a Malinois will be useful with a never-seen six-month-old Vizsla pup? Hmm..

.
as a ps ...It don't matter the breed .But some folks can only relate to a situation if the dog is the same breed

Transparently incorrect, of course. While there is a variance with individuals which must be adjusted to, there is a WIDE difference between breeds in terms of hardness, temperament and mental development at the same age when comparing dogs bred for different purposes. There is a good reason why the Mailnois has taken over a great deal of military, schutzhund and police work and the Vizla has not. Your contention is false.

My reply was to 'jstevens' within your quote 'Steve007' !
However , this is a Gun Dog Forum and I'm assuming when we talk about dogs we are talking about Gun Dogs. That said ,when reference and coloration is used as Difference or indifference by anyone it's usually an excuse.
There are far more reasons why Malinois and other breeds have been and will continue to have precedence over others such as the Vizsla ....and that my friend will be because they are Guarding breeds Not Hunting and Flushing breeds in the Shooting field.
So regards the original topic of 'Heel Work' ..no matter ,they all have to have this discipline/training .
Sir,my contention is Right. You may have taken it wrongly

Mr HuntEast OP

Consider buying a wonder lead . Works great.

http://www.huntsmith.com/article.php?id=5

[quote="Sharon"]
Consider buying a wonder lead . Works great.
/quote]
I often wonder if some use a lead as a transition to off lead ,rather than a tether .

I hope so. I want a dog that heels when told - with no lead- in the field etc. Around the block though - 4 lane highway in front of our house- I use a lead.

Now put up the picture with your 6 spaniels following you off lead. That's the ultimate goal.
( Although I still wonder if you have some meat in that back pack.) You know I'm just kidding you.

Sharon wrote:I hope so. I want a dog that heels when told - with no lead- in the field etc. Around the block though - 4 lane highway in front of our house- I use a lead.

Now put up the picture with your 6 spaniels following you off lead. That's the ultimate goal.
( Although I still wonder if you have some meat in that back pack.) You know I'm just kidding you.

I never trust a dog and I never trust a human.
So 4 lane highway is not where I trust either,no matter how well trained the dog or human is.
In the field however , then Spaniel or retriever or any other breed should be this good ' to go ! ? ..If not it's just stravaiging when the Taxi driver dropped them off ?
And it helps when they are all in the same frame of mind . lol

Really a nice picture. STRAVAIGING???

gonehuntin' wrote:Really a nice picture. STRAVAIGING???

http://www.memidex.com/stravaiging

polmaise wrote:

gonehuntin' wrote:Really a nice picture. STRAVAIGING???

http://www.memidex.com/stravaiging

Jeeze, wife accuses me of that all the time.

gonehuntin' wrote:

polmaise wrote:

gonehuntin' wrote:Really a nice picture. STRAVAIGING???

http://www.memidex.com/stravaiging

Jeeze, wife accuses me of that all the time.

Well , Now you have a word for it and You also know what she means