Gun Dog Forum

I just received and am working my way thru Hickox's training videos volumes 1-4. He's using an e-collar with every command as part of his obedience training program, which I understand. However, his demonstration pups are all considerably older than my 11-week old Gus. My question is, can I/should I follow Hickox's method w/ little Gus at this time, minus the e-correction, or should I be doing something different w/ him at this age?

E.T.A.- I neglected to specify that I'm only asking about Hickox's obedience training method (KENNEL, WHOA, HERE) at this early stage.

Leash, regular collar, rewards until he's about 6-8 months depending on his mental make up.

Come on, and 11 week old pup is equivalent to a human baby, except it can run, walk, and respond to your voice....! But mentally it is just an infant! Focus on obedience, sit, down, heal, here,...using rewards for things well done. Keep training times short...!

11 wks old, How you gonna keep it on him till he grows some? Enjoy your pup for a while, it'll never be a pup again. 20' check cord would be all I'd use. It never fails to amaze me how young a lot of people want to start their pup. Some I've read though their pup was no good because it was already 3 mos old and wasn't pointing reliably yet. Enjoy your pup. Before you know it it won't be a pup anymore. BTW I couldn't have kept any kind of training collar on Stormy till he was about 6mos old. Six month's until about a year, he wore a turned off collar and the transmitter stayed in the house.

OK, so either y'all need to read a little closer, or I need to be a little clearer. Perhaps both. I'm not advocating the use of or even asking about using an e-collar on Gus... hence the word "Before" in the thread title. I'm asking if Hickox's method- MINUS THE E-COLLAR- can be adapted for basic obedience training of a younger pup.

Are you going to eventually use the ecollar on him?

If so, let him wear it and as Don says, minus he transmitter. What you have to realize is that the ecollar is nothing more than an extension of the check cord; and electronic check cord. Every command learned and reinforced by check cord will be reinforced by ecollar once he's off it or by what ever means you wish but it all starts with a check cord.

IANative wrote:I just received and am working my way thru Hickox's training videos volumes 1-4.

So, principally you are not working your dog through the training videos , you are working yourself through them , and asking if what you see or understand is right ror your Gus , before you put him through it ? :roll:

gonehuntin' wrote:Are you going to eventually use the ecollar on him?

If so, let him wear it and as Don says, minus he transmitter. What you have to realize is that the ecollar is nothing more than an extension of the check cord; and electronic check cord. Every command learned and reinforced by check cord will be reinforced by ecollar once he's off it or by what ever means you wish but it all starts with a check cord.

Understood, thank you. Yes, eventually he'll be introduced to the e-collar, but I'm in no hurry. I didn't employ the e-collar w/ my last dog until he was 18 months old- he wasn't ready for it (he was almost a year old when I got him, and he'd had very little training to that point). Everything I'm doing with Gus in the basement right now is with a check cord attached. I am not new to training bird dogs, but I am new to training a pointing dog. All I'm asking about here (and apparently not very well, judging by some of the responses) is if Hickox's obedience training method (his recommended commands of KENNEL, WHOA and HERE, I don't really care about HEEL at this point) can or should be taught to a pup as young as Gus- using a check cord only.

polmaise' wrote:So, principally you are not working your dog through the training videos , you are working yourself through them , and asking if what you see or understand is right ror your Gus , before you put him through it ?

No, neither principally nor actually.

IANative wrote:

polmaise' wrote:So, principally you are not working your dog through the training videos , you are working yourself through them , and asking if what you see or understand is right ror your Gus , before you put him through it ?

No, neither principally nor actually.

Confused .com
So you are following a program that you are not actually following but asking if that program or parts in it are right for you ?..When parts of it are reprimanded or discarded by others ,but it fits with your thinking then that's the way forward 'for you' ..am I on the right track or way off base

polmaise wrote:So you are following a program that you are not actually following but asking if that program or parts in it are right for you ?..When parts of it are reprimanded or discarded by others ,but it fits with your thinking then that's the way forward 'for you' ..am I on the right track or way off base

Of the two choices listed, I would have to surmise that you're way off base. At no point in any of my posts in this thread did I state that I was currently using Hickox's program to train Gus. I did say that I was working my way thru the Hickox video series. I'm doing so not to pick & choose the parts I want to follow, but to understand his training methodology in its entirety before I attempt to use it. I do the same thing with dog training books... kinda like the instructions that come w/ a new, must-be-assembled purchase that state "Read these instructions in their entirety before you begin."

Right now, Gus and I are still getting to know each other. We're working on house training, tossing and retrieving bumpers and wings in the basement, lots of play. My question was and remains, can or should Hickox's obedience training method be taught to a pup as young as Gus- using a check cord only?

BTW, I didn't pay attention to the calendar.... Gus is 12 weeks old today.

gonehuntin' wrote:Leash, regular collar, rewards until he's about 6-8 months depending on his mental make up.

And a shotgun with 10s for distance work.

IANative wrote:

polmaise wrote:So you are following a program that you are not actually following but asking if that program or parts in it are right for you ?..When parts of it are reprimanded or discarded by others ,but it fits with your thinking then that's the way forward 'for you' ..am I on the right track or way off base

Of the two choices listed, I would have to surmise that you're way off base. At no point in any of my posts in this thread did I state that I was currently using Hickox's program to train Gus. I did say that I was working my way thru the Hickox video series. I'm doing so not to pick & choose the parts I want to follow, but to understand his training methodology in its entirety before I attempt to use it. I do the same thing with dog training books... kinda like the instructions that come w/ a new, must-be-assembled purchase that state "Read these instructions in their entirety before you begin."

Right now, Gus and I are still getting to know each other. We're working on house training, tossing and retrieving bumpers and wings in the basement, lots of play. My question was and remains, can or should Hickox's obedience training method be taught to a pup as young as Gus- using a check cord only?

BTW, I didn't pay attention to the calendar.... Gus is 12 weeks old today.

Good on you for preparing. You've sussed that training is about a focused plan so, whatever you decide, you and Gus will be fine. There are lots of good paths to the end goal.

IANative wrote:

polmaise wrote:So you are following a program that you are not actually following but asking if that program or parts in it are right for you ?..When parts of it are reprimanded or discarded by others ,but it fits with your thinking then that's the way forward 'for you' ..am I on the right track or way off base

Of the two choices listed, I would have to surmise that you're way off base. At no point in any of my posts in this thread did I state that I was currently using Hickox's program to train Gus. I did say that I was working my way thru the Hickox video series.

"I just received and am working my way thru Hickox's training videos volumes 1-4. He's using an e-collar with every command as part of his obedience training program, which I understand"

I must have mis-read what you posted or not understood your level of understanding . My Apologies and good luck with your pup ...

polmaise wrote:I must have mis-read what you posted or not understood your level of understanding . My Apologies and good luck with your pup ...

No apologies necessary... as I said above, it's possible I wasn't being clear enough. Thanks for the well-wishes.

IANative wrote:

polmaise wrote:I must have mis-read what you posted or not understood your level of understanding . My Apologies and good luck with your pup ...

No apologies necessary... as I said above, it's possible I wasn't being clear enough. Thanks for the well-wishes.

No probs ..When The OP edits the Original post and changes the goal posts it's often difficult to help ,easier to just stay clear.

Why don't you ask George? Over the last 10 years, after attending one of his training seminars, I've asked he and his staff a number of questions about training issues and they've always answered. Shoot em an email. Better still go to one of his seminars and ask him in person, best money I ever spent on my dog.

In Hickox's training videos there is quite a bit of clicker work and training to do before overlaying the e-collar. Also the lock wing pigeon work and field exposure. To do them correctly takes some time so you have options. Just continue following the program up until the e-collar is introduced but with more detail, more duration, more distance, more distraction. With clicker work if the dog fails to perform once, no need to correct yet. Just don't reward. If the dog repeatedly fails at 11 weeks he is either not ready to move on, or not motivated enough by your rewards. Either way no need for the e-collar yet. Go out and socialize, run in the field, play with birds, chase some leaves, visit a pet friendly stores, talk to new people and practice the clicker work.... while you wait for pup to grow up enough.

mountaindogs wrote:...Go out and socialize, run in the field, play with birds, chase some leaves, visit a pet friendly stores, talk to new people and practice the clicker work.... while you wait for pup to grow up enough.

Great post per usual...mine was a leaf assassin until about 24 weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GSPONPOINT32 wrote:

mountaindogs wrote:...Go out and socialize, run in the field, play with birds, chase some leaves, visit a pet friendly stores, talk to new people and practice the clicker work.... while you wait for pup to grow up enough.

Great post per usual...mine was a leaf assassin until about 24 weeks.

Yup. Good way to screw up a hunting dog is to much obedience to early.
Personally at that age I'm going for walks out in the field and keeping quiet, changing directions if he's not glancing at me once in a while and working on come or here feeding part of his food to him as treats. Similar to clicker training without a clicker.

GSPONPOINT32 wrote:

mountaindogs wrote:...mine was a leaf assassin until about 24 weeks.

"Leaf Assassin." LOL, mine definitely resembles that remark.