Flush on Command

[okie_birdhunter]

How does everyone feel about the flush command ?


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[cjhills]

How does everyone feel about the flush command ?


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If the dog points at a distance off the bird you might get some awfully long shots. In heavy cover such as rough grouse you might get no shot. Maybe it works. I don't know. I do not et my dogs do that..............Cj

[Up North]

I do it all the time. I like walking to a shoot able area and release the dog. When grouse hunting I try to come in from the side, and walk to where the dog is looking. If the bird doesn't flush I say OK the dog will flush or start to relocate. Same on pheasents,but walk a lot closer to the dog. It probably isn't the correct thing to do,but it works for me.

[RayGubernat]

How does everyone feel about the flush command ?


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Obviously that type of tactic is not acceptable for formal field trials.

HOWEVER

If one is hunting alone, or even a pair of hunters in heavy cover, having a dog that will flush on command can be the difference between an empty game bag and a full one. You cannot get off a decent shot when you are wrapped up in multiflora or greenbrier.

If I did not trial...my dogs would be trained to walk in on birds...on command.

RayG

[Higgins]

I made a deal with the dogs. I’ll let you do what you have always wanted to do, flush the bird. But, in return, you can only do it when I ask you to.

I use a verbal “all right” cue. Once the dog is in the birdy area and points the bird, “All right” does not mean flush the bird. It simply means do what you think is right to stop the bird (if it’s running), manage it, and prepare it for the flush. I can’t expect the dog to do an aggressive flush until it has established where the target is. The goal is stylish, thoughtful bird management, an aggressive flush followed by an instant stop to flush.

Here is a short video.

https://youtu.be/hSlokTfOGW0

Brad Higgins
www.Higginsgundogs.com

[Trekmoor]

If one is hunting alone, or even a pair of hunters in heavy cover, having a dog that will flush on command can be the difference between an empty game bag and a full one. You cannot get off a decent shot when you are wrapped up in multiflora or greenbrier.

If I did not trial...my dogs would be trained to walk in on birds...on command.

RayG

That is how I always hunt/work my dogs. America is the odd man out in the way it works pointing dogs. The rest of the world (I think?) has the dog flush the bird on command. It is a field trial requirement in Britain and on the continent that the dog flushes the bird. It is much easier than you might think to have a dog walk in on birds at the pace of the hunter.

As Ray said you cannot get off a decent shot when you are deep among bushes etc. It is easily possible to choose a good place to stand for a reasonably clear shot if the dog has been trained to keep moving in on the bird on command. I often look at American videos of hunters stamping around trying to flush a well hidden bird with their feet when it is obvious that the dog could do the job far better.

Bill T.

[cjhills]

There must be something I do not get about this.
Every time I have sent the dogs in to flush, the bird flys out the back way or the other side and my first glimpse is of it going around a tree at fifty yards if I see it at all.
I get much closer to the bird if I flush. Generally if you and the dog walk in the bird runs fifty yards and flies away. You need a hard flush, or I do anyway.
I have always thought I would like to do that and I have dogs that will go either way.I Always flush with a pointing dog.
Having the dog Flush is why god made springers....................Cj

[ezzy333]

you mean that is why man developed Springers.

[gundogguy]

There must be something I do not get about this.
Having the dog Flush is why god made springers....................Cj

I really cannot disagree with this. In 35 yrs I have never spoke with a pointing dog breeder or trainer that considered a bold flush as something that was desirable in their pointer or setter. As I think back, marking abilities on the fall of the shot bird were also not very high on list as well.
But this an interesting discussion none the less.
Bold flush is something is always in the conversation with Spaniel folks when discussing breeding partners or a particular dogs performance.
Photo of Zeta and her sire Cliff. Like Father like Daughter. Sorry, I have searched hi & low in my files just do not have any pointing dog pics flushing birds

[gonehuntin']

All of my dogs have always been trained to flush on command. I use OK. To me, it makes no sense not to.

[cjhills]

you mean that is why man developed Springers.

Thank you for telling me what I mean. You Are Wrong of course But, I think god created Springers........Cj

[Sharon]

There must be something I do not get about this.
Having the dog Flush is why god made springers....................Cj

I really cannot disagree with this. In 35 yrs I have never spoke with a pointing dog breeder or trainer that considered a bold flush as something that was desirable in their pointer or setter. As I think back, marking abilities on the fall of the shot bird were also not very high on list as well.
But this an interesting discussion none the less.
Bold flush is something is always in the conversation with Spaniel folks when discussing breeding partners or a particular dogs performance.
Photo of Zeta and her sire Cliff. Like Father like Daughter. Sorry, I have searched hi & low in my files just do not have any pointing dog pics flushing birds

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As your one pic shows you definitely have to watch you don't shoot your dog. I assume that's why springers are taught to sit. I think it is a good skill if you don't participate in pointing breed field trials- one more thing that can go wrong there.

[gonehuntin']

The thing that is different in the flush between flushers and pointing dogs is that pointing dog's seem to be cautious on the point and don't skyrocket when the bird takes off. They are usually cat footing tracking the bird when it flushes so the danger of shooting a pointing dog is not nearly as high as with a flushing dog. Most labs don't have hard flushes like spaniels do either.

[polmaise]

The danger of shooting a dog is dependent on the shooter ,not the breed or the training

[Trekmoor]

The thing that is different in the flush between flushers and pointing dogs is that pointing dog's seem to be cautious on the point and don't skyrocket when the bird takes off. They are usually cat footing tracking the bird when it flushes so the danger of shooting a pointing dog is not nearly as high as with a flushing dog.

+ 1 on this. I find it far easier to train steadiness to flush to a pointing dog than to a spaniel even if the pointing dog has flushed on command. The main difference is that a pointing dog will have given me plenty of warning that a bird is about to fly off. The dog therefor knows that I "am on it's case" so chases just never happen once a pup has had a few dozen flushes . I don't use checkcords usually but if the pup has had sufficient practice at stopping dead in it's tracks following a flush then no chase occurs.

Everyone has their own ideas about how and when a dog should do the flushing so if the most favoured way in America (due to trial regulations ?) is for the handler to flush the birds then that is fine by me. I have yet to meet one handler in Britain who does his own flushing however. Where you find "style and beauty" in the rigid stance of a dog during flushing , we find style and beauty in watching the dog steadily and stealthily move in to flush, or even in the headlong charge into flush that some dogs do on command.

Personally, I find that , with my own dogs, even those pups that begin by making wild charges in order to flush on command, soon change to moving in on game in a stealthy and more controlled manner.

To digress a little bit here........ What do American falconers do about flushing birds from a point ? Here in Britain most falconers want their dogs to go in with a rush on command. I was told this means the game will be more likely to be flushed when the falcon circling above is in the right position for a stoop on it's prey.

Bill T.

[Sharon]

The danger of shooting a dog is dependent on the shooter ,not the breed or the training

Absolutely, but wanting your dog to flush - and possibly jump up- at the bird , increasing the possibility of an accidental shot imo.

Always had to careful with hounds as by the time that rabbit comes around to the shooter the hound is often right on the rabbit's tail.

[GSPONPOINT32]

The danger of shooting a dog is dependent on the shooter ,not the breed or the training

Absolutely, but wanting your dog to flush - and possibly jump up- at the bird , increasing the possibility of an accidental shot imo.

Always had to careful with hounds as by the time that rabbit comes around to the shooter the hound is often right on the rabbit's tail.

Never hunted rabbits with dogs but I've always wondered how people don't shoot their dogs.


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[gonehuntin']

Rabbits are usually a long way ahead of the dog's if you're using beagles or basslets. Plus, you can tell where the dog's are by the baying.

[Sharon]

The danger of shooting a dog is dependent on the shooter ,not the breed or the training

Absolutely, but wanting your dog to flush - and possibly jump up- at the bird , increasing the possibility of an accidental shot imo.

Always had to careful with hounds as by the time that rabbit comes around to the shooter the hound is often right on the rabbit's tail.

Never hunted rabbits with dogs but I've always wondered how people don't shoot their dogs.


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You have to be very VERY careful.
NOt always gonehuntin. Often the rabbit holds tightly until flushed and that often can be very near you.
( 25 years of rabbit hunting)

[Higgins]

Here is a recent photo of Glenn presenting the bird to the guns on command. An aggressive flush followed by an immediate stop to flush. Beautiful to see.

http://www.Higginsgundogs.com

[Trekmoor]

I've shot into the hundreds of rabbits found by my dogs .....Labs, spaniels , brittanies and GSP's. I never shot any dogs because if the dog did not stop to flush I didn't shoot. Same thing applies to birds. If I see that a companions dog is inclined to chase then I stop shooting completely and also stop hunting my dog, he can shoot his own dog but he's not getting to shoot mine.

If you are too keen to shoot the chances are you will have an unsteady dog.

Bill T.

[gundogguy]

Nice Video Higgens though boldness of flush is a bit of stretch. I have heard that same flushing command used by spaniel folks that realize their dogs are not bold and powerful flushers.

Over all your niche market will do well to follow you on this, however main stream pointing dog culture here in the states will be very slow to follow if at all.

[gundogguy]

I've shot into the hundreds of rabbits found by my dogs .....Labs, spaniels , brittanies and GSP's. I never shot any dogs because if the dog did not stop to flush I didn't shoot. Same thing applies to birds. If I see that a companions dog is inclined to chase then I stop shooting completely and also stop hunting my dog, he can shoot his own dog but he's not getting to shoot mine.

If you are too keen to shoot the chances are you will have an unsteady dog.

Bill T.

Exactly!!!! Thanks for mentioning that Bill .And the mere fact a Gun/handler's attention is on the dog sets up a proper shot and ultimately a proper retrieve for the dog. And also for those that hunt for food. game that is not destroyed by being shot so quickly!

Mark is 65 yards away in med heavy switch grass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZcSLfEU_ZY
mark is 70 yards away med heavy switch grass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8PiCK3tgK4

In both cases you can see me as the gun take a hard look at the dog before I attempt to engaged the bird!

[polmaise]

Often the rabbit holds tightly until flushed and that often can be very near you.
( 25 years of rabbit hunting)

Correct!
Don't know Your 25 years in all terrain or circumstance Sharon, but on Rabbit's the dog --No matter the breed has to be steady and the shooter even more so !!
In many way's the Pointer has the advantage ,with a 'flusher' on the move the factor's are increased ?..lol
Around 2:15 on this wee clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGjtm6ulIAw

[Sharon]

Great video ! Good shot! I love those flushers.

[Sharon]

I've shot into the hundreds of rabbits found by my dogs .....Labs, spaniels , brittanies and GSP's. I never shot any dogs because if the dog did not stop to flush I didn't shoot. Same thing applies to birds. If I see that a companions dog is inclined to chase then I stop shooting completely and also stop hunting my dog, he can shoot his own dog but he's not getting to shoot mine.

If you are too keen to shoot the chances are you will have an unsteady dog.

Bill T.

Exactly!!!! Thanks for mentioning that Bill .And the mere fact a Gun/handler's attention is on the dog sets up a proper shot and ultimately a proper retrieve for the dog. And also for those that hunt for food. game that is not destroyed by being shot so quickly!

Mark is 65 yards away in med heavy switch grass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZcSLfEU_ZY
mark is 70 yards away med heavy switch grass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8PiCK3tgK4

In both cases you can see me as the gun take a hard look at the dog before I attempt to engaged the bird!

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Really enjoyed those videos; so much game would be be lost without a dog like that. ( I saw Zeta work once.)

[gundogguy]

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Really enjoyed those videos; so much game would be be lost without a dog like that. ( I saw Zeta work once.)

Yes you told me you went to a Spaniel trial. Zeta girl had a an amazing career in Canada 7 trials 5 placements 3 of which were wins Her last Open AA event begins next Tuesday,6th in the National Champs
She has been off her game a bit since her last heat cycle but we feel like she is getting back to old self.

[twistedoak]

There must be something I do not get about this.
Every time I have sent the dogs in to flush, the bird flys out the back way or the other side and my first glimpse is of it going around a tree at fifty yards if I see it at all.
I get much closer to the bird if I flush. Generally if you and the dog walk in the bird runs fifty yards and flies away. You need a hard flush, or I do anyway.
I have always thought I would like to do that and I have dogs that will go either way.I Always flush with a pointing dog.
Having the dog Flush is why god made springers....................Cj

I found its all technique
if you follow the dog into its flush , the birds go in the other direction.
I first flank in from the side ahead of the dogs point .trying to force the bird to flush my self.
during which I try to position for the best shooting lanes.
the dog also plays a part in it .a smart flush on command dog will learn to circle and force the flush back toward the hunter