Pigeons in launchers

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randomnut
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Pigeons in launchers

Post by randomnut » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:31 pm

I'm needing to work on pointing with my pup. I've got pigeons and launchers. I had planned to use a hobble and 20-30' of light string tied to the launcher, along with a helper and a check cord.

Would this work and will it harm the pigeons?

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Munster
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by Munster » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:40 pm

No, but you may hurt the dog........

Launchers and homing pigeons or ferel pigeons. Treat the birds as if they are wild..........and wild birds dont wear tetheres.

Free run pup on launchers, he hits scent cone and twitches a nose hair, bird is gone........end of story. He hits point, kill the bird and go home.

BTW, if you chose to do this set up...........it isnt going to hurt the pigeons. your not launching them outta a rocket!!
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randomnut
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by randomnut » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:05 pm

I don't have homers yet Munster, and was looking for a alternative to letting all the birds fly off.

I really like using chukar, but can't afford to let 6 chukar go 3 or 4 times a week.

I have done what you advised with MY male, and all is great with him. I'm working with a female now that hasn't had near the exposure as him. I'm not looking to get her steady yet, I'll work on that this spring and summer, just hoping to improve her point.

I may just have to try my hand at catching feral again. Thanks for your input.

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Munster
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by Munster » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:31 pm

I got ya and know where you are coming from. But to much can go wrong with the tethering and make things un natural for the dog. Then, I feel, the check cord makes it between you and the dog and not the dog and the bird. her point will improve when birds fly!

Good luck to you.

Yeah, to do this with chuckers will break the bank.
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by randomnut » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:41 pm

Understood. I'll just keep hunting her and work with homers when I'm confident they'll recall, and ferals when I can catch them. Thanks again

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:12 pm

Feral pigeons will home if you get then while young and raise them in a loft.
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by Munster » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:30 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Feral pigeons will home if you get then while young and raise them in a loft.
I have done this a few times. Works out best for when the dog does everything right and you decide to kill the bird.

When I lose a homer it KILLS me!
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by Wacmtracm » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:46 pm

It won't harm them one bit. I recently went and bought some to train my dog. Same way you want to. With hobbles out of a launcher. I live on 15acers but didn't go build a loft or nothing fancy I just used a portable puppy kennel and set it on a table on our back deck. I put hay in there and food and water. I had two pigeons in there and launched them 6or 7times each over the next two weeks. My dog wasn't pointing them and I was feeling sorry for them so I decided to let them go and get quail thinking and hoping maybe she just doesn't like pointing pigeons.

So the kennel sat on the table empty with the door open for four days. Last Sunday morning I went out there to get the kennel to take it to San Antonio to pick up some quail. I was up before daylight. I picked up the kennel and it felt heavy. The pigeons were back in there. Four days it sat. I never fed or watered it and the pigeons still kept coming back..just amazing. Even after launching them hobbled they still came back. Pretty cool. There's a cool video on you tube about how to make pigeon hobbles. Good luck

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:57 pm

I don't follow why you still would hobble them when you found out they will come back to a small loft. One other thing, if a dog won't point a pigeon it won't point any bird. You will hear some people say their dogs won't point pigeons and that can happen with any bird if you teach your dog a certain kind of bird is just a training tool but dogs do not decide which birds are game birds and which aren't. That is done by you. In other words treat your pigeons as game and the dog will treat them as game as well. And remember game birds do not come hobbled.
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by RayGubernat » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:35 am

simply put...

Hobbling birds of any kind for a dog that is not steady...is a bad idea. too muich can go wrong.

I do hobble birds for re-use, but only on dead broke dogs...and they are still wearing a collar, just in case.

You don't need all that many bird encounters to "tighten up" a dog's point. One or two birds every three or four days is probably too many.

I suggest you do a lot more yardwork and styling on a bench, board or barrel or in the field... than bird exposure unless you are talking about wild birds the dog cannot possibly catch.

I find that getting my hands on a dog, stroking and styling it up on a bench, and in the field, does a whole lot to improve the dog's style and get the dog to realize that stopping and standing with the scent of the bird is what I want.

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by shags » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:15 am

randomnut wrote:I'm needing to work on pointing with my pup. I've got pigeons and launchers. I had planned to use a hobble and 20-30' of light string tied to the launcher, along with a helper and a check cord.

Would this work and will it harm the pigeons?
That sounds like quite a complicated proposition. I know you asked specifically about the welfare of your pigeons, but I wonder about where your pup is in the process to warrant all that?

It might be less complicated to use a couple of pigeon poles. The birds can fly better, you don't need to worry about launching and getting tangled up, you won't lose your birds, and you can work each one a couple of times, maybe more depending on what you're doing. Pigeon poles are portable, you never worry about forgetting where you put them, and in general give you a more 'natural' set up for your dog.

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by SCT » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:33 pm

shags wrote:
randomnut wrote:I'm needing to work on pointing with my pup. I've got pigeons and launchers. I had planned to use a hobble and 20-30' of light string tied to the launcher, along with a helper and a check cord.

Would this work and will it harm the pigeons?
That sounds like quite a complicated proposition. I know you asked specifically about the welfare of your pigeons, but I wonder about where your pup is in the process to warrant all that?

It might be less complicated to use a couple of pigeon poles. The birds can fly better, you don't need to worry about launching and getting tangled up, you won't lose your birds, and you can work each one a couple of times, maybe more depending on what you're doing. Pigeon poles are portable, you never worry about forgetting where you put them, and in general give you a more 'natural' set up for your dog.
+1

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:14 pm

OP RN.: Pigeons cost $1.50 here= about $20.00 a month. They must cost a fortune where you are?:)
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:24 pm

Tie a weight to the pigeons foot. About an ounce. I'd pop them then when done get an old dog and go find them and pick them up. Everyone got a little work out.
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by randomnut » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:30 pm

5-6$ Here.

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by Wacmtracm » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:22 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I don't follow why you still would hobble them when you found out they will come back to a small loft. One other thing, if a dog won't point a pigeon it won't point any bird. You will hear some people say their dogs won't point pigeons and that can happen with any bird if you teach your dog a certain kind of bird is just a training tool but dogs do not decide which birds are game birds and which aren't. That is done by you. In other words treat your pigeons as game and the dog will treat them as game as well. And remember game birds do not come hobbled.
I only used them hobbled. Dog wasn't pointing them so I released them. I never thought they would return.

I'm no expert but when my pup didn't point I was worried. I did lots of research to find lots of guys...some from on here say theyre dog didn't point pigeons but points quail... I was hoping that was the issue. It was easy enough to just go get quail and try. That's when I released the pigeons.

Turns out my dog did point the quail. Only on the first day we trained. The next time she didn't so I recaptured the pigeons and will now launch them unhobbled as soon as she indicates she's on their scent.

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by Meller » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:04 pm

Maybe I missed it but how old is your pup? :)

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by randomnut » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:52 pm

12 month old DD. She points, but I'm trying to intensify her point in a quick kinda way, maybe not possible.

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by shags » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:39 am

randomnut wrote:12 month old DD. She points, but I'm trying to intensify her point in a quick kinda way, maybe not possible.
If you want more intensity IMO the procedure you outlined above is not the best way to go. The more complicated and the more you have to mess with it and "be there" the more distracting it is to the pup, and more distracting leads to *less* intensity - flagging, head slinging, soft saggy points. For a young dog I would find a way to put birds out and just let her do what she will without any intereference from you, no CC, no verbals, no nothin' but letting her find, point, chase, or whatever. Once she's crazy about birds and intense then step up slowly with the steadying process.

Birds are a big expense, so maybe you can find a way to procure some cheaply. For example, if you are near a city, maybe you can trap some ferals. If you're rural, maybe you can trap some pesky barn pigeons, get an Amish kid to trap for you, or find a livestock auction where pigeons are available. At one time I asked a local trainer with homers if I could rent some birds; colored bread ties marked mine if they returned to his coop and I paid for ones that didn't make it back.

Otherwise I would consider a method with tethered birds, but that method would have to be very simple, no launchers, no CCs, no helpers - just the dog and her birds.

IME there is no quick way to get anything done with a bird dog...except maybe to mess them up. Each step in development takes as long as it takes, and things go so much better when the trainer understands that. I have the tee shirt for that one :lol:

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:33 am

There is a variety of ways to work a young dog on birds. Delmar Smith was hobbling pigeons 50 years ago with a reasonable amount of success. It's tricky when you train by yourself and the use of launchers and Homer's is effective at a certain stages of training. The biggest problems I encounter is equipment failure and improper timing. In my opinion it is critical to have dependable equipment and a well thought out plan when you take the pup out.

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by randomnut » Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:37 pm

Found pigeons today for 3$. Gonna get 10 to raise some young, and get about 10 to train with every week. Thanks for all the advice.

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by setterpoint » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:03 am

keep pigeons up for 2 weeks or so then let a few of them fly but do it late in the evning this will not give them time to fly off they will come back to your loft

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by deseeker » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:32 pm

If these are adult birds, do not let them free fly, or they will home back to where you bought them from :roll: . Once you have babies, the babies will home to your loft. At least you have some to work your dog with now. :D

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:43 pm

Don't take the cc off and the dog won't catch birds. The saying used to be to "keep the pup on the cc for six months and when you think he's trained, keep it on six months longer?". Most problems are caused by people getting in a hurry and taking the pup off the cc too soon. Keep him on the cc and he won't catch birds.
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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by setterpoint » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:16 pm

some of my birds did fly off but some did home in and i have off spring off these birds thats why you fly just a few and see wgat happens

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Re: Pigeons in launchers

Post by DonF » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:01 pm

The rule of "kiss", keep it simple stupid! Get rid of the harnessed birds. Don't fly pigeons to soon. Ferals and homer's have one thing in common, they both go home after work. If you teach them to home they will home! I have about 30 ferals out there right now. They come from 26 yrs of ferals out there. They'll home from 50 mi easily. For putting in the older traps, smaller basket, thy are better than homer's because they are quite a bit smaller. Those old traps launched a few dead homer's on me. I've never had a feral die in the trap. Ferals leave the ground every time, launch and their gone, kick over a foot trap and they are gone. Now and then I have homer's that either get launched or kicked out of a foot trap and land on the ground in front of the dog. Bad for young dog's short on training. Great for older dogs finished training! You can catch wild pigeons and lock them up until they pair up on a nest, and you own most of them. Don't worry about those that don't return. The young one's are gonna be gold, they only know of one place to eat, drink and sleep. Let them come and go for a week or two and they will be great.

Ezzy mentioned keeping the set up as natural as possible, I could not agree more. If you have launcher's, you become the wild bird. Pup get's close to it, flush. Weather it scent's the bird or not, flush. Coming in cross wild the moment the pup hit's scent, launch. Won't be long before the pup's point's before you can launch and then don't launch. Start going to the front of pup but do not walk right next to him, come around so you can watch him 100% of the time. He glances to you stop and launch at the same time, then go on. Don't waste your time going over and correcting the pup, he'll correct himself much faster and far better end result. Dog's that do not point pigeons have been worked to hard an them and they were turned into a training tool, they smell a pigeon and they blink it or they stop but just stand there and look pretty bad. What you, YOU, do with a pigeon determine's how the dog will act on them. Use a quail, chucker or any game bird the same way as to much hands on with a pigeon and the result's will be the same, pay attention to what your training! Keep in mind that your goal is to teach the dog what to do. Don't teach him what a training bird is, you'll get training bird response's from him, won't point. I let my young dog's drag a check cord until they are solid on the birds. Then I remove the check cord. The check cords best use these day's is teaching obedience and whoa.

Bottom line, don't be a trainer, be a teacher!
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