Training

[Kevin]

Posted this same thread on another forum,but would like to know what you guys think.

Has anyone read the book by Jerome B. Robinson "The Ultimate Guide To bird Dog Training. The reason I ask is that the training methods seem so different than what I have read elsewhere and on this board.

For example:

1.Expose pup to live birds at a young age, pup should be pointing by 12 weeks or so.
2.Never allow pup to bump and chase birds, say nothing just restrain him with checkcord. Pop/release bird when pup breaks point/creeps.
3.No retrieving until pup is force fetched.
4.Introduction of gun while pup is feeding.

The main idea is not to let the dog do something that you will have to break him of later...if he's never had a chance to chase there is no need to all of a sudden ask him to be steady, therefore the trainers job is easier. If the dog is well bred he will not need to chase birds to build his desire.
If you introduce the gun when pup is giving chase then he will be harder to steady to shot because once again that is the opposite of what he is used to.
A dog that has been encouraged to retrieve as a pup is more likely to break because he is used to retrieving thrown items for you, so when you shoot a few birds for him everything will be telling him fetch the bird because daddy likes it when I bring things back, thus he will always break.

It seems most people think;let the dog bump and chase as many birds as possible, fire blanks when he is giving chase and do lots of fun retrieving when pup is young.(quite the difference in methods)

I must admit the consistancy of Jeromes training makes sense, there are no about faces in the training program. You are teaching pup what you want from day one. (But what do I know...never trained a birddog)

The book says these methods are good for the average foot hunter that is training the dog himself and wants a fully broke dog.

Is anyone out there using a similar training approach, how has it worked,what do you more experienced trainers think?

[tfbirddog2]

Kevin, I have read an used the book an hold it in high reguards. His type of training is what I call for every day guy next door hunting, not so much field trials. Shooting around a pup while eating if you live where you can is great but banging pots and pans around is much more simple.The whole thing is to help if by chance ther might be gun shyness. It's just teaching the pup that when they point not to be startled by loud noises an hold point I used it on my halfbreed an it worked, whether she was gun shy or not I don't know but when she heres a loud noise like guns or firecrackers she looks up for something to fall. Has far as checkcords I don't think they work personally I use the whistle.Checkcords to me are in the way an if you are using them in real hunting I have seen guys jerked off their feet by the dog with a loaded gun. If you steady wing to shot I hope you never miss, cause a wounded bird can make for along day for everyone. Steady to shot doing what I do guiding doesn't work cause not all customers can kill on first shot so to me its is pointless to train it. Its agood book but I like to use more than one book an one video, I break down an make my own training not someone elses its my dog not theirs do you know what I mean.

[Kevin]

tfbirddog 2,

Most definately, there are many different ways to the same end. What I really like with this method is the consistancy, it doesn't make sense (to me anyway) to turn the tables on the dog at some magical age and ask him to the exact opposite of what he's been doing for months. IMO that makes the trainers job harder and requires putting alot more pressure on the dog.

[Country-Side Breeders]

I also agree with the book, however not with the force retrieve. I don't say anything while starting out dogs (don't ever want them to break their concentration on what they are learning in order for them to listen to what I have to say...natural ability will tell the dog what it needs to do) in the field and always use a check cord on them until I know that they know what they are doing. As for the retrieving, I start them as soon as they know their name. I've found the sooner you start, the easier it is to continue with it. If they come upon a bird in the field, I hold them on it and then walk around to the front of them and flush it up. If they go in for it (when they are still quite young), I get there before them. If they are older and start to move as I move, I stop, let them gain their confidence back and then flush it. I watch the tail...it tells me everything that dog is thinking. I'm a believer in training the dog to do what's it's going to do in the future and not turn tables later in life and change his thinking. I also have the pups introduced to loud noises as soon as they can hear. Granted, a gun shot noise it different from many other loud noises, but it teaches them that loud noises are just a part of life and nothing to be surprised at.