When To Start Breaking

ohsq · Post by **ohsq** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:40 pm

I know this is probably a huge matter of opinion and I know that all dogs are different, however, what are benchmarks to go by when breaking your dog. I have an 11 month old Brittany that has been pointing little and then chasing when I flush the pigeon. During the chase I have fired my .22 blank and does fine with that. Problem is he has caught a couple of hobbled pigeons and 2 quail that I worked him on. At his age with what seems to be a good prey drive should I start breaking him. I for sure don't want to rush the process but didn't want his training to go backwards either. What are your thoughts????

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:06 pm

Sounds like your britt is ready to start breaking.
If the pup or dog has a strong drive is running well and will start to let me flush birds for it, then I will start with the breaking process. Start slow and let the dog show you what it can handle and when it is ready to move on.
The beginning steps of breaking happen in the yard away from birds. Mostly getting a solid whoa command. I like to use a table or barrel although not needed.

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:09 pm

"Problem is he has caught a couple of hobbled pigeons and 2 quail that I worked him on."

That's too bad. May make breaking that much harder.

When I see my dog start to show that he /she has figured out that they can't catch the birds, by starting to hesitate or creep , then on goes the Cc and breaking time begins. ( They have already learned whoa in the back yard by that time .)

poor pic but my runt at 10 months practically broke herself- not hard to understand why- Sire was 5xCH (Cover Dog) Shady Hills Billy

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:12 pm

IMO, very few Dogs are ready to even consider "breaking" at 11 months. Continue working with the Dog and it will tell you when its ready... Forget if the Dog caught any birds! Let the Dog mature first.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:18 pm

I agree but she didn't .

Which reminds us again that all dogs are different and you must read your dog's readiness or not at all levels of training.

Griffonpoint · Post by **Griffonpoint** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:54 pm

When to 'break' depends largely upon the method of training you plan to use.

Others above mention that 11 months is too early in their opinion. For many dogs this is true with conventional (Whoa and Force based training) training. But there are other methods out there where a dog (even super soft or sensitive dogs) can learn to be Steady at even six months old. Just depends upon which direction you want to go. Also, catching birds early isn't a bad thing in all methods.

They can be ready to take you hunting even before they are physically mature enough to run hard, lol.

getzapped · Post by **getzapped** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:42 pm

My pup is steady to flush at 7.5 months. Right now the trainer has us working on steady to shot. I am completely new to all of this and had no idea where the dog should be at this point in training. The trainer had to explain all of this to me. He suggested i go to junior hunter with her. I have no idea what that is.

So why is it that eleven months is to early to break?

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:51 am

One of my setters practically broke herself at 10 months. American Field Derby trial. Week end fun mostly - no expectations for derbies to be broke. I watched as she stood there through the flush and shot. NO one was more surprised than me.

Timing for all training depends entirely on the dog .
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Griffon Point's answer to your question is A+
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The breed may make a difference when talking about maturity to being ready to steady up.
Brasovalley has vizslas ( which I've never had), that may explain his post.
Folks say setters mature more slowly than pointers too. I don't know.

clink83 · Post by **clink83** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:22 pm

getzapped wrote:My pup is steady to flush at 7.5 months. Right now the trainer has us working on steady to shot. I am completely new to all of this and had no idea where the dog should be at this point in training. The trainer had to explain all of this to me. He suggested i go to junior hunter with her. I have no idea what that is.

So why is it that eleven months is to early to break?

A lot of traditional training plans that involve whoaing a dog on birds then punishing it when it breaks were harder on dogs. Gentler training methods like the various West methods or the use of pigeon launchers that teach the dog they can't catch birds can be used at a younger age. A lot of gun dog trainers are still stuck on dominance and punishment based training, unfortunately.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:28 pm

The first thing I think of when "breaking a dog" does not involve Bird Work. I do my yard work first COME TO ME, GO WITH ME AND STAND STILL. I don't worry about catching a bird in the early stages, if done sparingly (1-2) times. I free run my young dogs on homers in launchers when they get close, I launch the bird or if the pup points I wait until he creeps then I launch the bird an he chases. I have a pup with no training, point an hold the bird until I walked in and flush it...then she chases.

In my opinion, she is ready for the "breaking" process. (I hate that word)

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:31 pm

The age to train depends on many factors but the most important one is maturity and regardless of the method the pup needs to be somewhat mature in it's ability to learn as well as physically. There also is a need for a pup to be a pup before being an adult. I agree that different training methods effect the pup somewhat differently but they all work much better when you have a pup ready and able to learn and that takes time and experience before the training begins. All of this said you can train a pup much younger but the end product normally is not the same. Dogs need experience to learn independence and to learn how to handle certain situations and not just mechanically perform like a robot. At least mine do.

Ezzy

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:27 pm

getzapped wrote:My pup is steady to flush at 7.5 months. Right now the trainer has us working on steady to shot. I am completely new to all of this and had no idea where the dog should be at this point in training. The trainer had to explain all of this to me. He suggested i go to junior hunter with her. I have no idea what that is.

So why is it that eleven months is to early to break?

There is a big difference between "steady to flush" and an "honest" broke dog....

A Junior Hunt Title is an AKC title that only requires the dog stand long enough for the handler to signal and a Judge to acknowledge. (seconds) Personally I would not waste the money and would spend it on training.

getzapped · Post by **getzapped** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:46 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
getzapped wrote:My pup is steady to flush at 7.5 months. Right now the trainer has us working on steady to shot. I am completely new to all of this and had no idea where the dog should be at this point in training. The trainer had to explain all of this to me. He suggested i go to junior hunter with her. I have no idea what that is.

So why is it that eleven months is to early to break?
There is a big difference between "steady to flush" and an "honest" broke dog....

A Junior Hunt Title is an AKC title that only requires the dog stand long enough for the handler to signal and a Judge to acknowledge. (seconds) Personally I would not waste the money and would spend it on training.

I understand she is not broke, but she started steadying on her own. That is why we are continuing to steady her. That is what i assume "broke" means. Steady to shot and fall right? I was just making sure i wasnt doing something out of order with her.

Luminary Setters · Post by **Luminary Setters** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:47 am

Regardless of the method, nothing good comes from finishing a dog to young.

'To young is essentially up to the owner or trainer to decide. And, just because a puppy meets bench marks to move it forward, doesn't always mean the dog is ready to be pushed.

Problems created by asking to much to soon can take a lot of time to repair and and often resurface down the road.

Southern_Point · Post by **Southern_Point** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:22 pm

Is it possible to wait to long to break a dog? I understand u can error on the breaking a dog to young, but can u also error on the side of waiting too long?

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:05 am

Southern_Point wrote:Is it possible to wait to long to break a dog? I understand u can error on the breaking a dog to young, but can u also error on the side of waiting too long?

"In General" I believe a dog should be around 12-18 months provided non related bird work has been done with full complyance. eg. house manors and yard work.

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