Wild birds

[Bobsandblues]

Hey everybody! I've been lookin around on here for weeks reading up on training and finally decided to take the leap and sign up ! Awesome stuff so far and I can tell there's no shortage of savvy bird dog people on here! I just got my first personal pup a few months ago. My family has always had bird dogs but due to the drought here in TX we haven't had a bird dog in at least 10 years. The comeback is amazing though due to the rain the last two years and it's going to be an amazing fall season! My question is this. I read all the time on here when talkin about training everybody seems to say it takes birds to make a bird dog and that unless you're one of the lucky ones with tons of wild birds and plenty of land you need pigeons. Well my family has plenty of land and no shortage of birds but I never see how to train if you have birds and land. Do you just take em out and get bird exposure and let the develop and generally just "hunt" them so they can learn on there own? I'm very interested in hearing some of yall's thoughts on how to go about training and thanks in advance!

[Tooling]

Sounds to me like you have a very good scenario (sure makes me envy)

I would say step one - make the dog yours (at home)

Step two - make the dog yours in the field and just hunt him/her - the dog has it or it doesn't...time in the field with your mouth shut will tell you what you have and then you can cultivate it from there - let your dog (pup) show what it has and don't get hung up on what it "ought" to be - there's time for that later once you know what strengths or weaknesses toward a legit bird dog you have...if pup stands..encourage that..if pup chases..shut your mouth (for now).

Good luck - nice situation you have there..don't go getting yourself in a hurry.

[Bobsandblues]

Thanks for the reply! That's definitely what I am trying to do as of right now. Not doin any kind of serious training just obedience and manners and the basics. He's just a little over 4 months so he's still got a lot of pup in him. I've just taken him out to let him run and explore so far. He gets pretty stir crazy in the house. I'm doin my best not to get in a hurry and to just enjoy him bein a pup. It's gonna be quite the adventure, he's just as hard headed and obnoxious as his owner! LOL but I think he'll be a good one if I do my part right.

[DonF]

You make the pigeon act a near wild as you can. Anything a wild bird might do you need to figure out how to do yourself. Of course thousand's of dog's were trained on pigeon's using check cords. It's been close to 30 years since I check corded a dog into birds, I use remote traps. With the CC, you can stop the dog and enforce the point that you want it to stand. The saving grace is quite like remote traps. You know where the bird is and you should never be surprised at where you find it, CC or traps. With the CC you enforce your will on the dog, with traps, you make the bird act like a wild bird and let the dog learn. Wild birds would accomplish the same end but there is no guarantee you'll find a bird on a given day nor how many. Wild bird will not generally co-operate with you, pigeons in traps always co-operate with you. You can use pretty much any way to train your dog, proven method, and if you do your part, you'll have a trained dog. There is one draw back on using pigeon's regardless of in traps or on check cords, at some point your gonna have to turn your dog over to wild birds. That may take two of three wild finds!

[Griffonpoint]

Hi,

You have access to wild birds and it isn't hard to get really nice BobWhite in covey pacs from outfits like those north of you in OK. That's great and it's cool that you will be able to hunt regularly with your dog without distance or availability as a hurdle. As mentioned, a lot of people train with pigeons and make Steady dogs with them. However there are also a lot of folks who don't bother with pigeons since they don't hunt them at the end of the day like Don mentioned above.

http://www.higginsgundogs.com is a great resource for a hunter looking to get the best from his dog and addresses training with wild and wild acting birds.

Best of luck,

Katy

[setterpoint]

pigeons you have control where the bird will be. you can use this to your advantage by planting birds where you want your dog to hunt such as fence rows etc and you would be surprised how the dog remembers where he found birds I would get me a launcher to get the dog solid on holding point with the pigeons then on to wild birds they will teach the dog more than you can but first let the dog learn on the pigeons

[Bobsandblues]

Thank yall so much for the replies and info! Sounds like even though I've got plenty of wild birds I'll still need to grab some pigeons and remote traps just for the fact of having a controlled situation for building the foundation for my pup as we all know wild birds rarely do what we want em to! He's still young yet so we aren't past just happy romps out through the pastures, I just like to have the info I need before the exact moment that I need it! Thanks again!

[ROTTnBRITT]

I see no reason not to use the wild birds if you have them. Take the pup out and find them. It will learn to point and learn to find birds. If the pup isnt pointing after a while then you will need training birds to help and show the pup what you want it to do. You may have a dog that will naturally let you flush or you may have to teach it that. That where you will need training birds.

[Sharon]

I see no reason not to use the wild birds if you have them. Take the pup out and find them. It will learn to point and learn to find birds. If the pup isnt pointing after a while then you will need training birds to help and show the pup what you want it to do. You may have a dog that will naturally let you flush or you may have to teach it that. That where you will need training birds.

My way of doing things too ... "It will learn to point and learn to find birds. " quote
It will also learn it can't catch the bird and start to hesitate / creep.
That 's when the cc goes on and formally training starts.

[rinker]

You have a great situation. A lot of professional trainers and serious amateurs travel great distances to spend the summer working on wild birds. Here is my somewhat over simplified recommendation. Run your dog as often as possible. Let him find, point, knock, and chase as many birds as possible. Eventually after several months or more, he will start to stand on point longer and may even let you flush or start to flush his birds. At this point, you will need to do some serious yard work and get to where you can get him stopped. I use a whoa post for this and then transition to a belly ecollar. Go back to running on wild birds, if he points, make him stand until you can get the birds flushed. If he knocks birds, get him stopped and make him stand. It shouldn't take much of this before he starts pointing and standing at least through the flush reliably.

[Griffonpoint]

I see no reason not to use the wild birds if you have them. Take the pup out and find them. It will learn to point and learn to find birds. If the pup isnt pointing after a while then you will need training birds to help and show the pup what you want it to do. You may have a dog that will naturally let you flush or you may have to teach it that. That where you will need training birds.

Agree with Sharon and this post. Your dog may be naturally cooperative. With wild birds and the type of exposure mentioned above, a person can learn about their dog before deciding if more training and an e-collar will be necessary. A person can jump right into launchers and pigeons but they may not have needed that level of intervention or investment.

[Elkhunter]

If you have access to wild birds and a young pup and you choose to use pigeons I will reach through the computer and smack you!!!

It always amazes me that we stress wild birds, wild birds, wild birds. Yet when a guy has access to wild birds the first advice he gets is to buy a launcher and get some pigeons.... really!!!!


My advice, and what I do. As long as the dog will not run off or go get itself killed somehow. Cut him loose and let him go find as many wild birds as he wants. He may point em, he may flush em but at this point you cannot lose. He will start pointing them eventually, and if you have lots of birds around it will be sooner than later. Condition him to a gun with a starter pistol as he flushes wild birds. Get some pigeons to transition to a shotgun. Take him hunting all of next fall, then see what you have and use the spring to work on any issues the dog may have.

DO NOT GO GET PIGEONS, you will offend the bird dog gods.

[Bobsandblues]

Thanks again everybody! That was my original plan just get him out and let him hunt and figure out things on his own and go from there. Thanks elkhunter for the laughs as well as help! LOL where do you do most of your elk huntin? I guide in the Gila Out in NM (sorry I know this is a bird dog forum but I can't help talkin elk) LOL

[RaiderZach]

Man I wish I had access to wild birds! Trying to do this stuff in the suburbs is the pits!

[ezzy333]

Birds are good but I know of no professional trainer that doesn't use pigeons or some kind of bird during training that are normally used in a launcher though there are other ways.

[Griffonpoint]

Birds are good but I know of no professional trainer that doesn't use pigeons or some kind of bird during training that are normally used in a launcher though there are other ways.

Lol, he isn't a professional trainer but he does have access to land and wild birds. Many professional trainers would benefit tremendously by this setup. There are Professional Trainers who do not use pigeons, in this country and abroad.

[ezzy333]

Birds are good but I know of no professional trainer that doesn't use pigeons or some kind of bird during training that are normally used in a launcher though there are other ways.

Lol, he isn't a professional trainer but he does have access to land and wild birds. Many professional trainers would benefit tremendously by this setup. There are Professional Trainers who do not use pigeons, in this country and abroad.

Probably true but I and it sounds like you do not know any which is what I said. I also know it is almost impossible to work on specific areas the dogs need if you have no control of the birds. But you are right, anyone could benefit from having access to an area with lots of native birds but even those use planted birds, launchers, or Higgins releasers when training. Some even use the magic brush pile though I have no idea what is magic about it. The prairies are wonderful to condition a pup and teach objectives, hunting patterns, range, and a host of things but they still have to come home and be worked on their manners and that normally happens on the training grounds with released birds and the equipment needed to control the dog and the birds.

Ezzy

[rinker]

I think that if I had unlimited access to wild birds that I would have no problem breaking a dog without them ever seeing a pigeon or pen raised quail. Unfortunately, I doubt that I'm ever going to find out.

[Elkhunter]

I think that if I had unlimited access to wild birds that I would have no problem breaking a dog without them ever seeing a pigeon or pen raised quail. Unfortunately, I doubt that I'm ever going to find out.

BINGO!

My dogs have seen 2-3 pigeons in the last few years. They somehow win a bit.

My point was this guy was not asking how to break a dog, or fix any problems. He stated he had a PUPPY and access to wild birds. And the first advice he gets is to go get some pigeons. Ridiculous IMO.

[oldbeek]

I also have wild birds at my front door. My only comment is at this time of year, you may have second hatch ( very young chicks) around. If you see this, hold off until they are at least 6 weeks old and can fly somewhat. Your dog will and can snatch these chicks up. That will start a real bad trait. At some point you will need to train whoa. Do not let the pup chase for to long. My pup never learned she could not catch them by chasing. At 18 months she was still chasing. She knew whoa from yard training. One tickle with the collar and an audible whoa and now she stands solid as I flush. Good luck

[ezzy333]

In many states if not most you are restricted from running dogs on birds at least on public grounds. Which makes a lot of sense and we should be smart enough not to do it anyplace during mating and nesting season on through the rearing time.

[mnaj_springer]

In many states if not most you are restricted from running dogs on birds at least on public grounds. Which makes a lot of sense and we should be smart enough not to do it anyplace during mating and nesting season on through the rearing time.

Ezzy is right, there are restrictions (at least here in MN) during the nesting season. That being said.... Yes! Take advantage of wild birds. I've literally been counting the days until I can work on state owned land.