Bird intro, what to do now?

[mopar_nocar]

https://youtu.be/7VHk8aQ1kyg

This is the third try (and best effort on the dog's part) to introduce birds.

The other attempts include running away from the bird and ignoring the bird to chase a yellow butterfly.

I didn't have birds before, did I wait too long? The dog is a bit over a year old.

On a happier note, here's my german shepherd/lab mix on the same day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXAgL7Mx0HU

I missed the first two casts on the video and the first part of the flush, but he did ok. I still have to say "sit" but he did it. This was his first flyer.

Thoughts and thanks.

[mnaj_springer]

I don't think asking "did I wait too long?" is productive at this stage. It is what it is now.

Question: Have all your intros been done in the same fashion? Throwing the pigeon then hoping for a retrieve? Did you play with the bird in your hand first and allow the pup to gain confidence and dominance over the bird?

[mopar_nocar]

This was the third try. She was allowed to investigate the bird in the corridor without me saying or doing anything. The bird was sat down in the corridor, lock winged but ambulatory. The dog was brought to the corridor and turned loose. I used the same method I had used for retrieving dummies because she was more interested in chasing butterflies than the bird, and I wanted her to do something she had done before in the corridor and maybe get fired up about the bird.

Before we started in the corridor, I brought the bird to her and let her smell it and show some interest. I am not 100% sure what you are asking about showing dominance over the bird...maul it or mouth it more?

It is lock-winged and not flapping her in the face.

Honestly, the only reason I ask is that past dogs and the current kennel mate were introduced in much this fashion and have shown immediate interest in birds and carrying them around, and I have never had a dog that was timid about birds, not that I am an expert....hence the question.

Thanks.

[Rik]

Never had this problem with any of my dogs, but I have helped friends who have. More birds is almost always the answer. Try clip wing instead of lock wing to get the pup chasing the bird. Toss the bird to get some motion to create a chase reaction. Try using Quail or Chukar instaed of Pigeons, some dogs don't seem to be turned on by pigeons. Don't use Pheasant yet, they may intimidate a timid pup. If possible let him catch and kill a bird or two. He neeeds to be immersed in the smell of gamebirds and associate the smell with something he wants.

[mopar_nocar]

Well, went back out with the spaniel this pm.

No corridor, clip wing bird and I let her have her way for a while. Once she picked it up and ran to the kennel, I had her hooked.

We did a handful of retrieves in the field with the clip wing, praising her up on each retrieve, letting her hold the bird for as long as she wanted.

Good? Bad? or Indifferent?

[setterpoint]

I would take a bird let her smell it move it around in your hand and let it fly away. dog should start to chase and get excited over the bird in your hand this will build pr.drive.

[MJB64]

Never had this problem with any of my dogs, but I have helped friends who have. More birds is almost always the answer. Try clip wing instead of lock wing to get the pup chasing the bird. Toss the bird to get some motion to create a chase reaction. Try using Quail or Chukar instaed of Pigeons, some dogs don't seem to be turned on by pigeons. Don't use Pheasant yet, they may intimidate a timid pup. If possible let him catch and kill a bird or two. He neeeds to be immersed in the smell of gamebirds and associate the smell with something he wants.

I don't think that you should intentionally let him kill birds.

[mnaj_springer]

Well, went back out with the spaniel this pm.

No corridor, clip wing bird and I let her have her way for a while. Once she picked it up and ran to the kennel, I had her hooked.

We did a handful of retrieves in the field with the clip wing, praising her up on each retrieve, letting her hold the bird for as long as she wanted.

Good? Bad? or Indifferent?

That sounds good! Building confidence in a timid dog is good! The dominance thing... What I meant is helping your pup understand the she's bigger and badder than the bird. I've done this by using a clipwing, enticing the dog to grab at it through whatever means will get her to do so (okay maybe not whatever, but you get the gist). A dog dominant to birds isn't afraid to stand over it, on it, pin it down, etc. and is definitely not afraid to grab it and carry it.

But it sounds like you got it all sorted out now.

[mopar_nocar]

Put out two quail yesterday. She found them, trapped one (they are not great flyers, these quail), then put it down to chase a yellow butterfly. Had to get the bird flapping and throw it to get her to look at it again.....?

[gundogguy]

Put out two quail yesterday. She found them, trapped one (they are not great flyers, these quail), then put it down to chase a yellow butterfly. Had to get the bird flapping and throw it to get her to look at it again.....?

Ok you have established that your student will pick a bird though may not deliver well. Stop the bird work for a short time period and really help your pups confidence level. Confidence in the going out and picking up and returning with the item and confidence with you the handler.
With confidence built up, butterflies will become a thing of the past. Clarity with what you are asking the pup to do will lead to efficient retrieving behaviors. One way to establish clarity is to leave some thing pleasurable for the pup to experience.

Thru interactive exercises like the one in the short clip this pup learned that I was a source of pleasure and that what I ask of her was important.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5ipwymPm5o

day 2 of this exercise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0CRzD9-mC4

[CDN_Cocker]

f possible let him catch and kill a bird or two.

Please don't follow this advice. Catching birds is fine and common with flushing dogs but under no circumstances should your dog ever kill a bird. That would be training the dog to be hard mouthed and rough on birds. Completely defeats the purpose of training a dog to retrieve downed game.

[Sharon]

I don't know Nick. This is an older dog(not very birdy) starting at the young pup level... a bird or two ?

[mopar_nocar]

I will keep working her. This is a new experience for me, my previous dogs have been EASY in this regard...maybe not others, but lack of birdiness has not been an issue.

sb

[mnaj_springer]

It sounds like a clipwing pigeon was a success for you but the quail weren't.... You'll have to figure out the difference between the two situations. Was the environment different? How did the birds act differently? Did you act differently, maybe applying more pressure?

I think once you figure out what worked it will help you repeat the behavior/situation.

[gundogguy]

I will keep working her. This is a new experience for me, my previous dogs have been EASY in this regard...maybe not others, but lack of birdiness has not been an issue.

sb

Remember this one often over looked fact of dog training and development. If your basics are conflicted and hampered by poor introductory work, You will never have a chance at any thing that closely resembles advanced training and finished work.

[mopar_nocar]

I think it may be time for outside intervention for this pup. Otherwise she is never going to make it into the field.

I am trying to get her in with a pro trainer in Austin. I am pretty sure I have fouled up with this dog beyond my limited ability to fix. Which is frustrating, because I am not good enough to do with this dog what I have been able to do with her kennel mate mutt and other dogs...make a huntable dog.

A month with a pro trainer and then re-evaluate her is in order, I think.

Thoughts or experiences in this regard and/or dissenting opinions?

sb

[CDN_Cocker]

That escalated quickly... perhaps you just need to be more patient

[gundogguy]

I think it may be time for outside intervention for this pup. Otherwise she is never going to make it into the field.

I am trying to get her in with a pro trainer in Austin. I am pretty sure I have fouled up with this dog beyond my limited ability to fix. Which is frustrating, because I am not good enough to do with this dog what I have been able to do with her kennel mate mutt and other dogs...make a huntable dog.

A month with a pro trainer and then re-evaluate her is in order, I think.

Thoughts or experiences in this regard and/or dissenting opinions?

sb

I congratulate on your decision. Special cases need special attention. Best of fortunes to you and your pup!

[mopar_nocar]

Dog is doing better if paying more attention to the bird cages is any indication.

Been doing a lot of yard training..."sit" mostly.

Here's a video from this PM:

https://youtu.be/ANBk5TLURg0

Going to see a trainer in a week with her, still.

sb