Help with training new/older Lab?
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Turkeytrot29
- Rank: Just A Pup
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:41 am
Help with training new/older Lab?
First of all sorry for the long post, I'm knew to the training deal, but just have a few questions about what to do. The situation is kinda weird so i'll explain. I had a good friend that recently started managing a plantation. The plantation is managed for mainly quail hunting, but they also do a little duck hunting just for fun. Well, my buddy contacted me and said he was going to get rid of a few of the dogs because he didn't have time to work with them all. One of the dogs was a 4 year lab that was said to be the plantations duck dog. Matter a fact this was the only "Duck Dog" they had. He stated he didn't know much about the dog other than it's 4 years old and full blooded lab. Apparently the individual that used to run the dogs didn't keep up with much paper work and such. Anyway my buddy didn't even know the dogs name. Yea i know....crazy, but true. Also, no one has worked with the dog in several several months, and when they did, it probably wasn't for long. Being as he came into the job how he did, he couldn't find out much about the dog from the previous employee due to their being a little bitterness there if you know what I mean. Now on to the present....I have adopted the dog, pretty 83lb. black lab, "Remmy" is what we've been calling him and he's responded well. Over the past week and a half we've worked heel, sit, stay, down, kennel, and load up. He's doing very very well, on a leash, with the commands I just listed. However, when throwing a bumper with him, he doesn't quite want to bring it back. I ordered Tom Dokken's book and have been reading it. I didn't start him on treat training so not sure if its a good idea to bring that into the picture now or not? Also, i don't know if its a good idea to try to take him hunting yet to just see how he responds? Several people apparently tried to get the dog before I did, and made several comments to my buddy that he was a great dog, as they had seen him hunt. I know I'm kinda coming into this backwards being as he's not a pup, he's a big boy, and strong! Matter of fact, I had to put a prong collar on him to keep him from jerking my arm out of socket while walking him the first few days. I'm just looking for any advice or guidance. Anything would be much appreciated. I feel like he's going to be a good dog, and may make a fine hunting buddy, but i just want to make sure i do my part. If it's best I wait until next year before I Take him hunting I have no problem with that...so what are yall's thoughts/tips?
Re: Help with training new/older Lab?
First, congratulations on this rescue, sounds like you have both found new best buddies. Very good of you to take him in and give him a real home.
Boy, where to start. Before taking a dog I don't know hunting, even one that you have heard is a good hunter, I would do some yard drills "Sit, Stay, and here" with him just to make sure you two are on the same page and you have some control over him in the field. Once you are on the same page with him on those drills and working together, I would test to see if he understands heel which would be nice, but not essential. He may very well have had good training and just be rusty after not having much attention and also I have seen big strong dogs that were very well trained who would only listen and work well for somebody who knew how to manage them. After that I would do a quick test to see if he has been force fetched (which if a good thing) and get some help with a buddy to double check for gun shyness. Depending on his training and his responsiveness to working together all this testing to see where he is at could be done in an hour.
If you have a local retriever club one of it's members could help you assess real easily what training he has had in a few minutes and direct you on training from there. It might surprise you the training he has had.
Then assuming you have some basic control over him I would take him hunting 1 on 1 in a remote location just to get to know him better. At 4 years old you are not likely to create new bad habits and you to can get in some bonding and a feel for what he knows in the field. Try to get off by yourself in a place with no other hunters around just in case he is not steady.
If you find he has been force fetched (which is a good thing) you can quickly do some "Sit, Stay, here, and hold" drills to get him to return the bumpers to you better. He just may need a refresher.
And, even if you find he has not had much formal training, it's absolutely amazing what you can accomplish in a few weeks with a smart willing retriever.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.
Don
Boy, where to start. Before taking a dog I don't know hunting, even one that you have heard is a good hunter, I would do some yard drills "Sit, Stay, and here" with him just to make sure you two are on the same page and you have some control over him in the field. Once you are on the same page with him on those drills and working together, I would test to see if he understands heel which would be nice, but not essential. He may very well have had good training and just be rusty after not having much attention and also I have seen big strong dogs that were very well trained who would only listen and work well for somebody who knew how to manage them. After that I would do a quick test to see if he has been force fetched (which if a good thing) and get some help with a buddy to double check for gun shyness. Depending on his training and his responsiveness to working together all this testing to see where he is at could be done in an hour.
If you have a local retriever club one of it's members could help you assess real easily what training he has had in a few minutes and direct you on training from there. It might surprise you the training he has had.
Then assuming you have some basic control over him I would take him hunting 1 on 1 in a remote location just to get to know him better. At 4 years old you are not likely to create new bad habits and you to can get in some bonding and a feel for what he knows in the field. Try to get off by yourself in a place with no other hunters around just in case he is not steady.
If you find he has been force fetched (which is a good thing) you can quickly do some "Sit, Stay, here, and hold" drills to get him to return the bumpers to you better. He just may need a refresher.
And, even if you find he has not had much formal training, it's absolutely amazing what you can accomplish in a few weeks with a smart willing retriever.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.
Don
I'm always happy when I make it thru another bird season with my dogs, my gun and my truck.
It's an added plus if I manage to keep my wife, my house or my job.
It's an added plus if I manage to keep my wife, my house or my job.
Re: Help with training new/older Lab?
I am a pointer guy and know nothing about labs. I have a relative that is an avid dove/duck/goose hunter and he always has a lab that seems to be a pretty good dog and does a good job for him. I honestly don't know if my relative has ever done one second of 'formal' training with any lab that he has had. He is careful shooting around them until he is sure they are OK with gun fire and then he starts taking them hunting. They seem to pick up on what he wants them to do. This seems to me to be the great thing about labs.
I think it's possible that this dog has had little formal training, and may not know standard commands. I would make sure that he isn't gun shy, then I would try to set up a realistic hunting scenario and shoot some pigeons and see what happens. You may be surprised at what he will do.
I think it's possible that this dog has had little formal training, and may not know standard commands. I would make sure that he isn't gun shy, then I would try to set up a realistic hunting scenario and shoot some pigeons and see what happens. You may be surprised at what he will do.
Re: Help with training new/older Lab?
You won't know what you've got until you've spent some training time with this dog. It's important to realize that he doesn't know how old he is. And, like my old friend and mentor D.L. Walters said, "your dog doesn't know how old he is, what breed or color he is. He's just a dog." Don't treat him differently because he's got a little age on him.
Of course assuming that every dog should be trained exactly the same is absurd. But there is a well established pattern of development that has proven to be successful with a majority of them, as long as it is adapted to the individual dog. That is what I recommend. Formal Basics usually take about 6 months. That is dependent on each dog's willingness and intelligence of course. Here's what that includes.
The components of Basics in order
1) “Here”
2) “Heel & Sit”
3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8 ) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water tee with Swim-by
It's okay if you aren't familiar with all of these terms. One advantage of following a proven program is that it will teach you what terms mean, what skills are important, and how to build them - and in what order. Your dog may be terrific. He may be common. You won't know until you give him a chance. Don't be in a hurry. Bond with him, and build trust between you. If you want more information let me know.
EvanG
Of course assuming that every dog should be trained exactly the same is absurd. But there is a well established pattern of development that has proven to be successful with a majority of them, as long as it is adapted to the individual dog. That is what I recommend. Formal Basics usually take about 6 months. That is dependent on each dog's willingness and intelligence of course. Here's what that includes.
The components of Basics in order
1) “Here”
2) “Heel & Sit”
3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”, e-collar conditioning to “Fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8 ) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water tee with Swim-by
It's okay if you aren't familiar with all of these terms. One advantage of following a proven program is that it will teach you what terms mean, what skills are important, and how to build them - and in what order. Your dog may be terrific. He may be common. You won't know until you give him a chance. Don't be in a hurry. Bond with him, and build trust between you. If you want more information let me know.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
Re: Help with training new/older Lab?
Double post
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
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Turkeytrot29
- Rank: Just A Pup
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:41 am
Re: Help with training new/older Lab?
First of all thanks for all the reply's! I am very open minded to any and all help I can get. I been trying to get as much bonding time with the dog as I can, just in order to develop some trust with him. I figure I may move to a long check cord soon and see how he does. The guy said prior to him bringing him to me, he would retrieve an object and bring it back to him. He didn't do this for me, however maybe he's just getting adjusted to his environment or me for that matter. He seems to be acting a lot more comfortable with me each day.
Mr. Evan, I would greatly appreciate any and all information you would have to offer! I'm completely new at this and I want to make sure I take the time to get it right. Shoot me a PM with any extra tips or anything. I respect everyone's opinions and tips, but i have come to learn through visiting this site you've done this a time or two, Haha!
Mr. Evan, I would greatly appreciate any and all information you would have to offer! I'm completely new at this and I want to make sure I take the time to get it right. Shoot me a PM with any extra tips or anything. I respect everyone's opinions and tips, but i have come to learn through visiting this site you've done this a time or two, Haha!