when to start on live birds

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mowermandan
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when to start on live birds

Post by mowermandan » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:34 pm

ok so my pups a little over 9 weeks now im starting on basic training at what age should I introduce live birds im working on my loft but it wont be ready probably till after Christmas wich is another week or more so is 11 12 weeks to young or old enough tostart on live birds I hope im not sounding dumb but as ive said in other posts its been 30 years since my last bird dog and I used wing on a string back then and im reading now on this forum that thatmethod is not truly a good idea what say you? ive found a place here in town that will give me or sell very low cost pigeons so should I buy a couple now

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gundogguy
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by gundogguy » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:37 am

Pointing breed or Flushing breed?
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will-kelly
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by will-kelly » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:34 am

You can make it much harder on your self down the line if you rush it. Every dog is different and traditionally I spend the first three months working on socialization. Take the dog everywhere you go that allows it. Bre sure to keep the dog on the lead in these situations. It will help build the confidence and create a stronger bond with you as the handler.

Additionally I take the pup on walks in the field or woods to let the dog begin to develop his nose and for some more confidence building.

As for the Boyd intro suction, every dog is different. I would highly recommend that you get a book or DVD and follow it. You mention it has been thirty years since you last trained a dog. A lot has changed in the training world. The method,the tools, etc.

I highly recommend the West method. It's what works for me and there is an excellent book by Martha Greenlee called Training With Mo. Maurice Lindley is the go-to guy on the east coast and her book does an excellent job of explaining the system.

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DonF
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by DonF » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:03 am

Your dog will forget more about birds than we ever knew the moment it's delivered, it's bred in. I hold off on birds quite awhile and then I don't. It can chase all the "bleep" birds it want's before field work begins, even game bird's if it finds them. Then your dog is learning to hunt, be quiet and let it. I believe your gonna find that when your dog is ready to be worked on bird's, it's gonna tell you. It'll point "bleep" birds briefly, I mean it will establish a point on them. So much for bird introduction. A "bleep" bird is a bird, just doesn't do what game birds do, it's learning.

When I think the dog is ready I can normally get it on a planted bird and within just a few birds it will point, not long maybe but it will point. You will find out the more planted birds you use, the more your dog will break off "bleep" birds, it'll wean itself.
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MillerClemsonHD
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by MillerClemsonHD » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:05 am

If you can get a hold of a few pigeons cheap go for it. Hold the pigeon so the wings cant smack the pup, tease them a little bit and then let the pigeon go and the pup can chase.

Then in a week or so get a couple of quail. Pull the flight feathers on one and toss it in some short grass. Let the pup chase it, play with it, carry it around whatever it wants. Don't chase the pup and take the bird away as soon as he gets it let him have it for a few mins.

A couple days later plant one in an easy spot and let the pup point it, chase it, do whatever it wants. Just shut up and watch which most folks cant do. They miss out getting to see them start learning how to use their nose, maybe even point for a half a second.

Make sure you still take the pups on walks in fields or woods or whatever. Couple weeks (2-4) pup is running around pretty good and starting to hunt go put down 3-4 quail in cover that would hold wild birds and places wild birds should be. Take the pup for a walk, slow down when you are 50 yards from a bird and let the pup find them on his own. Don't stand next to it and call him over if at all possible. (maybe help him on the first one). If he misses one make a loop back around and see if he can find it on the way in or just leave it there and don't worry about it. Do this a few times over the next couple of months and your pup will learn how to find birds and hunt. If he catches a bird don't worry about it. Don't chase him or run him down and snatch it away, let him carry it around a min and get it back from him when you can and go find the next one. By the time he is 6 mos old they will be running, hunting, using their nose and brains. Might be pointing some might not. They don't need to be broke they need to learn to be a bird dog. If you have wild birds close try to get the pup into them once he is bold enough and bird crazy.

I run dogs off, foot, 4 wheeler, and horse and run them off all of them since they were 12 weeks old.

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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:38 pm

I start them at about 10 weeks NEVER with pressure. I have them retrieve clip wings, point and chase, start them swimming and going in cover. Only if they want to and all fun stuff. If you're talking about a pointing dog, you can never start them retrieving to early, since many don't have as much retrieving desire as versatile dog's do. Never combine the pointing and retrieving together for a young dog.
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Sharon
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by Sharon » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:49 pm

DonF wrote:Your dog will forget more about birds than we ever knew the moment it's delivered, it's bred in. I hold off on birds quite awhile and then I don't. It can chase all the "bleep" birds it want's before field work begins, even game bird's if it finds them. Then your dog is learning to hunt, be quiet and let it. I believe your gonna find that when your dog is ready to be worked on bird's, it's gonna tell you. It'll point "bleep" birds briefly, I mean it will establish a point on them. So much for bird introduction. A "bleep" bird is a bird, just doesn't do what game birds do, it's learning.

When I think the dog is ready I can normally get it on a planted bird and within just a few birds it will point, not long maybe but it will point. You will find out the more planted birds you use, the more your dog will break off "bleep" birds, it'll wean itself.
Well said. Exactly what I do. When I see the dog start to creep or hesitate on birds then it's time to slowly start formal training on birds.
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smittty
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by smittty » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:39 pm

at nine weeks I like to take about 6,7 or 8 young quail that run and hoop around like frogs and just put them and the pup in some low grass or even the yard and let the pup have the time of his life with them let him pounce eat kill what ever he wants to with them ... Then from that time on it will be all about birds

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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:56 pm

smittty wrote:at nine weeks I like to take about 6,7 or 8 young quail that run and hoop around like frogs and just put them and the pup in some low grass or even the yard and let the pup have the time of his life with them let him pounce eat kill what ever he wants to with them ... Then from that time on it will be all about birds


When to introduce has never been an issue I worry about. I use to but after working with dogs up to 3years old that had never seen a bird and having then turn out as excellent bird dogs I begin to realize we worry about it way too much and think there are more pup ruined by too many birds than there are with too few. Any more I try to let the pups at 5 or 6 weeks chase a pigeon around the yard a couple of times and from there it may be several months before they see any more depending on what we can find when out walking the fields.
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mowermandan
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by mowermandan » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:03 pm

re gundog guy
shes a gsp and I was talking about just letting her be introduced to birds ie pigeons like was in one post letting her see play chase pigeons etc at her age or should I wait mixed opinions I see thanks all keep it coming im learning great things from this forum

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hettmoe
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by hettmoe » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:23 pm

Take her out in the fields every day. It's obvious that you enjoy seeing her learn...You will learn alot more about her out in the fields. Go and learn together and have some fun :D

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Sharon
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by Sharon » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:57 pm

mowermandan wrote:re gundog guy
shes a gsp and I was talking about just letting her be introduced to birds ie pigeons like was in one post letting her see play chase pigeons etc at her age or should I wait mixed opinions I see thanks all keep it coming im learning great things from this forum
This subject you have just posted will have different opinions. Smart man to notice it's a query. :) Some never let their dog chase; other do until the dog shows signs of hesitating , creeping. Both kinds of trainers have success I've decided.
Last edited by Sharon on Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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aulrich
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by aulrich » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:03 pm

Then there is the verbal whoa vs the non verbal stand.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

mowermandan
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by mowermandan » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:44 pm

I agree on cat skinning that's why im here to learn allthe different ways people take care of their cat skinnin

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Hattrick
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Re: when to start on live birds

Post by Hattrick » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:56 pm

I always say sooner the better. The first 5-6 months are the impression stage the more exsposer the better you are.

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