second bird introduction with pup question.

EVIL X · Post by **EVIL X** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:23 pm

Quick question regarding second bird intoduction....

I have had charlie a few weeks now, I rescued him from a non-caring,abusive home and he has been warming up to me, and feels good around me. The first weekend when I got him, I took him with me out to my local hunting preserve and let him chase a few quail around. He flash pointed them for a few seconds, and then ran in and busted the birds, chasing them when they flew. From what I have read here, in these forums, that is the best thing you can do for a young pup to build the strive to hunt/point, so i just let him have a good time, and didn't put any pressure on him.

I am taking him out there again this weekend and I have a quick question.

I bought a 30ft check cord. When he runs and busts the bird, do I keep ahold of the cord, or do I let it go, so he can continue to chase the birds?

He has "come" down decently well, but I am afraid with the excitement of the bird he might ignore me.

I probly answered my own question there, but I didnt know if it was better for him learning wise to snap his neck when he reached the end of the 30ft check cord, or just to let him chase them and have fun.

I am new to this, being my first gundog. Hopefully some of your prior experience can help me out. Thanks

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:26 pm

for this stage of his life I would just let him chase. He will come back after a short chase.

EVIL X · Post by **EVIL X** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:08 pm

Is that the best thing for him? He seems like a very intelligent dog, for as little as I have had him, he and I have been able to read each other pretty good, but obviously there is still "puppy" in him, where he wants to test me and do his own thing.

If others say that is whats best, and you have had sucess with it, then thats what i'll do

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:12 pm

You might try to use a little restraint with the checkcord when he starts to move forward before the flush this may encourage him to hold point. When you flush I would just let him chase for the time being.

EVIL X · Post by **EVIL X** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:19 pm

Is a 30ft cord too long for the first few intro outings? Basically should I just use my 15ft retractable leash, or should I let me range a little further out with the 30...

Thanks for the quick replies.

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:10 pm

I would suggest the checkcord and instead of pulling straight back on the dog from behind to stop him, try and get to one side or the other and make a looping circle to stop him this keeps the pressure off of him and he also learns he can't catch the birds.

How old is the pup? If he's knocking and chasing then he's not afraid of the bird so you could probably go ahead and intro him to the gun. Once a dog shows he's not afraid of birds then I probably wouldn't be showing him many pen raised birds until it's time to break him. I would hunt him to death and leave the pen birds alone until you start breaking him.

EVIL X · Post by **EVIL X** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:15 pm

The pup is now 20 weeks old. I don't really have any land to hunt, nor are there any significant population of birds around close. I live dead center of DesMoines Iowa, I would have to travel a good hour or probably more to even find a glimpse of wild game.

When you mean "break" the dog, you mean start the "whoa" process, or do you mean break him of busting birds?

I applogize, but I am fairly new to this still, everything I have learned about training, I have read on here.....

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:27 pm

EVIL X wrote:I would have to travel a good hour or probably more to even find a glimpse of wild game.

well worth the drive IMO. I drive 3 hrs. plus to get to decent wild bird populations. headed there tomorrow.

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:30 pm

I would have to travel a good hour or probably more to even find a glimpse of wild game.

Welcome to the club!

Try 2 1/2hrs!

You don't to start the breaking process before around 2 years of age. ON AVERAGE!

Breaking the dog means to get them steady to shot, wing and shot, etc.. Or in other words they dont go when the bird does.

Pups just cant handle that. Atleast most. The most I would do for now is let him have fun. Let him chase and figure out that he cant catch. In a more gun dog trainer lingo "Happy Timing". Work on 'whoa', 'here', and 'kennel'. Try watching the Perfection videos. They will give you a good guidline to go by. Then maybe you can start to STAUNCH up your dog. (steady him on point, Get him to whoa on birds. But no pressure training.)

EVIL X · Post by **EVIL X** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:31 pm

Ok...I will try to travel this weekend instead.

Is it because they are much smarter then pen raised birds? Basically saying they will flush much sooner then a shook up pen quail?

That is what I am going for this early in the game, to let the game teach the dog he can'not catch them, correct?

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:35 pm

Yes they will flush sooner. They will also teach the pup basic knowledge that you and the pen raised/planted birds cant.

Read my post above. I added to it after I re-read your post.

Someone else please explain staunch. I think my definition was poor.

EVIL X · Post by **EVIL X** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:59 pm

Can I find those dvd's at my local sheels?

Or are they specifically an online deal...

I will travel up to northwest Iowa this weekend instead. Everyone agress, if the dog finds a birds, it flushes, and the dog wants to chase, let him go correct? I do believe if I use a stern voice, he will come back. Hopefully he doesn't get ahold of an old nasty rooster, that wants to fight back.

What do ya say about bringing the gun along, yay or nah?

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:06 pm

20 weeks old is a time to expose the pup to as many different things as possible and hunting wild birds is the best exposure possible. Wild birds will teach a pup to point stauchly better than any checkcord or commands.

You will know when your pup is ready for pressure training he will let you know by his actions. At 20 weeks old also be careful with the gun, make sure he's bold enough before you start shooting around him.

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:12 am

Here is a link for the videos on Gun Dog supply. I have yet to see them at a video store.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/pestpefisetd1.html

If you dog is not gun shy, and if you only shoot the birds he does something right on I see know problems. If you have any doubts leave the gun at home.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:05 am

Staunch is generally used to mean that the dog will hold point until the handler flushes.

I see you are from Des Moines. I do not know the immediate Des Moines area, but you are in the heart of pheasant country and there is good quail to the south of you. With a little exploring around the outskirts of Des Moines, I bet you will be able to find birds alot closer than an hour away.

The pup is 5 months old, and as you describe it comes from a background that perhaps sapped his confidence a little. We would ordinarily not be working a 5 month old in the field with a check cord. We want them to learn to run to objectives, those being places where game is likely to be. They learn to do that simply be running free in the field and have plenty of encounters with game at an early age. I would also allow him to chase any birds he encounters at this age, eventually he will most likely start to flash point or hold point on his own, which is good. If he is one of the rare dogs that does not, then later, say next summer, you can work him with a check cord.

We like to let them run, bump, and chase at this age because it builds their confidence, or in the words of Delmar Smith, bolds them up. This helps later with more serious training, because at some point you are going to need to put pressure on the pup and you will make mistakes in training, everyone does, and you need pup to love birds so much that he will always bounce back.

At this point I would think of your timing or schedule for training this pup in terms of getting it ready to be usable next hunting season, which in your case starts around Oct. So you have a ton of time. Let him run, bump and chase for now. Save the check cord work for next summer.

The one thing I would teach him sometime in the next few months is recall, "Come" or his name or "Here" or whatever you want to use.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:06 pm

What type of pup is he?

EVIL X · Post by **EVIL X** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:22 pm

He is a German Shorthair.

I believe your only suppose to use this trick to see if you dog has interest in birds, but I tied a wing to pole/string today and he pointed rather well. held point for 2mins or so, before he broke and I snapped the wing in the air...

He is going with me to northwest iowa this weekend to see if I can't find some wild birds for him to have fun with...

I just signed back up at the hunt club, would it hurt any to throw a handful of quail or chukkar down for him to chase?

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:34 pm

The more birds you can expose him to, the happier he should be. Take a pigeon, clip one wing, and let him retrieve it. I don't think anything builds more drive into a dog than actually retrieving a bird rather than just chasing.

EVIL X · Post by **EVIL X** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:59 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:The more birds you can expose him to, the happier he should be. Take a pigeon, clip one wing, and let him retrieve it. I don't think anything builds more drive into a dog than actually retrieving a bird rather than just chasing.

I thought I wasn't suppose to let him catch anything this early in the game?

GsPJustin · Post by **GsPJustin** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:04 am

Don't let him catch a bird, unless its dead, or its in your backyard. Dont let him catch them while hes training/hunting/on point.

The only thing you need to do right now is get him on birds. Wild, in a launcher, planted. WHATEVER YOU CAN DO. Teach him whoa, here, his name, and kennel. Then afters hes doing good with all of those, and starting to hold point. Then you can think about upping the training level.

Having a pup hold point for 2 minutes is nice, but not necessary. The "wing on a string" will not do you any good now.

Just let him run, have fun, and gain experience.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:10 am

EVIL X wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:The more birds you can expose him to, the happier he should be. Take a pigeon, clip one wing, and let him retrieve it. I don't think anything builds more drive into a dog than actually retrieving a bird rather than just chasing.
I thought I wasn't suppose to let him catch anything this early in the game?

You don't let him catch any bird he POINTS at this stage or it teaches him he can break point and catch his own birds. It's OK to throw a clip wing for him to retrieve and let him break and get it. This builds tremendous desire in a dog and in no way, ever affects his steadiness to point.