Keeping Retriever in Range

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Wolfatomic
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Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by Wolfatomic » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:26 pm

I've heard of different ways to keep dogs in range, my pup is 5 months and when I take her to the field her nose hits the floor and she takes OFF. Just out of curiosity I let her run and she was so far she was just a yellow dot before she realized I wasn't behind her anymore and ran back like an arrow.

She has very good recall but there are times when she decides the smell is funner to follow. I also don't know how constant recall will affect her later.

What methods have you used to get your pup to zig zag and stay in range while also checking back? How do you implement the check cord/ ecollar to get the best results?

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CDN_Cocker
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by CDN_Cocker » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:46 pm

Neither a check cord or an ecollar is necessary at this point. Shes young, walk in a zig zag pattern whenever you take her out and she'll follow your lead. A flusher does not need to "check back" as they should never be out of shotgun range
Cass
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by Pepper » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:33 pm

Wolfatomic wrote:I've heard of different ways to keep dogs in range, my pup is 5 months and when I take her to the field her nose hits the floor and she takes OFF. Just out of curiosity I let her run and she was so far she was just a yellow dot before she realized I wasn't behind her anymore and ran back like an arrow.

She has very good recall but there are times when she decides the smell is funner to follow. I also don't know how constant recall will affect her later.

What methods have you used to get your pup to zig zag and stay in range while also checking back? How do you implement the check cord/ ecollar to get the best results?
You have a baby. Enjoy the baby. The rest will come later. Bond right now is sooooooo important. Do that and they will rely on you provided you are fair in their maturity and patience in their progress. It's not a race, it's at some time becoming a team. They rely so much from you. :)

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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by mowermandan » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:41 pm

You said retriever in your post what kind of dog are you talking about if it's a lab or similar breed I'd let her run while just out she's young and will eventually need to learn to be at hand if your using her for retreiving

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:08 pm

I don't agree with the other posts. A flusher has to stay withing range and that means 20 yards or so. Why create a problem now that you'll have to correct later? Teach the dog to turn to two blasts of the whistle right now when the dog is young and moldable. I've seen retrievers that would NEVER stay in range. Evert time the pup hits 20 yards give it a double toot and turn and walk a different direction. Never create a problem you'll have to correct later.
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by polmaise » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:10 pm

I don't understand the original question !

mnaj_springer
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by mnaj_springer » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:36 pm

Depending on the type of hunting you will do with your lab, you should get an appropriate training program. Also, understand that training a non-slip retriever will look different than training an upland flusher (if you strictly follow the programs). So know what you're getting into.

That being said, non-slip training can work for an upland flusher... Ask CDN_cocker about his pup.
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Higgins
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by Higgins » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:46 pm

Hello Wolfatomic,

Here is a video I thought you might find helpful. These are pointers but the handling is basically the same for flushing dogs. This is an effective, no pressure way to get it done. I use only body movement to control a dogs range and direction. No voice commands, whistles or hand signals are needed.

All dogs are born knowing how to handle in this way. It's pack or group dynamics. You don't have to teach them this, just get them out and do it.

http://vimeo.com/104148324

Remember, a flushing dogs job is to work within shotgun range, aggressively flush birds then stop. No chasing.

Brad Higgins
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Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.

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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by EvanG » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:10 am

A couple things stand out to me here. First, it has to be prominently considered that the pup is 5 months old, and on the cusp of formal training. That will help a ton! His mindset and overall attitudes will begin to mature visibly. For now, measures like the zig zag drill would be appropriate. What would not be appropriate is getting too strict or forceful with him at this point. Take your time, and put him complete through a formal course of Basics. That will take about 6 months. Check out Smartwork for Retrievers and it will tell you what Basics really are and how to do them.

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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by Trekmoor » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:14 pm

I wondered if the method shown in Brad's post would work just as well with a flushing dog ? A hard going flushing dog only needs to run 30 yards out to be getting to the limits of good shooting range . At 30 yards would a hard going flushing dog be too bothered if it's handler walked in a different direction or just stopped walking ? In the dogs mind would the handler not still be within an easy distance to get back to ? Would the dog not just keep hunting outwards ? It is a bit different with a pointing dog, it is likely to be considerably further out and a bit more likely to keep an eye open for it's handlers direction changes or his stops.

I have done the "simply turn in another direction" method with pointing breeds but I don't think my cockers would bother to turn until they reached at least 30-50 yards out if I tried the same thing with them ! I think they would still feel comfortable that I was not slipping away from them at such close distances.

I think I would train the O.P.'s dog to work as a spaniel by training it as a spaniel.... the dog does not know it is a retriever.

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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by polmaise » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:19 pm

Wolfatomic wrote:I've heard of different ways to keep dogs in range, my pup is 5 months and when I take her to the field her nose hits the floor and she takes OFF. Just out of curiosity I let her run and she was so far she was just a yellow dot before she realized I wasn't behind her anymore and ran back like an arrow.

She has very good recall but there are times when she decides the smell is funner to follow. I also don't know how constant recall will affect her later.

What methods have you used to get your pup to zig zag and stay in range while also checking back? How do you implement the check cord/ ecollar to get the best results?
Your curiosity got what you thought?
As for 'How' do you or 'What' do you do? ........What have you done ?...What are these quote ''Different ways to keep dogs in range'' that you have heard of?
Me ?.....I just take the eyes from the dog :wink: ..and make it believe it's nose :?: ..That way you can get a well known 'bugger off' dog to hunt at your feet in minutes ! :roll:

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gundogguy
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by gundogguy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:27 pm

Higgins wrote:
Remember, a flushing dogs job is to work within shotgun range, aggressively flush birds then stop. No chasing.

Brad Higgins
Higgins Gundogs
___________________________
Higgins Gundogs hunting etiquette

Dogs: Stay in touch and handle well. Always honor another dog's point, be steady when necessary and manage the birds for the gun.
Handlers: Be silent in the hunt. Allow the dog the freedom to do his work. Nurture the natural retrieve.


Two very short clips of a flushing dog being trained .Working within gun range and steadiness to wing and shot

A flushing dog being train to work within gun range
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrkoRxDk9xQ

Aggressively flushing birds steady to wing and shots marking and retrieving to hand slo-mo instant replay on the strong bold flush
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLfDsOJRLxI

These vids were taken one a year ago and the other six months ago My wife Nancy at the handle during these bird work exercises. These are work out sessions of the dog in my avatar.
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polmaise
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by polmaise » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:06 pm

Great clips gundogguy.!
Some forget that the dog they want is to flush the game for the gun while concentrating on finding game ie (Those that train with things on the ground that don't flush) :wink:
Never did understand the process for a hunting flushing dog that some use?..
If something was stationary dead ..like a tennis ball early on for a pup and or a dummy/bumper or god forbid a piece of cold game 'up wind' of a hunting breed then surely it would just follow the scent where it was?...ie In front of the handler!
Keeping a retriever or any other breed for that matter ! within range for the gun (including the HPR BREEDS!) Is the same process!
Phewww! there are some in the UK that actually plant tennis balls in a straight line in front of them then expect the young dog to quest a pattern between two guns either side ?...With a head wind to boot! :roll:

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gundogguy
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Re: Keeping Retriever in Range

Post by gundogguy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:14 am

polmaise wrote:Great clips gundogguy.!
Some forget that the dog they want is to flush the game for the gun while concentrating on finding game .ie (Those that train with things on the ground that don't flush) :wink:
Never did understand the process for a hunting flushing dog that some use?..
If something was stationary dead ..like a tennis ball early on for a pup and or a dummy/bumper or god forbid a piece of cold game 'up wind' of a hunting breed then surely it would just follow the scent where it was?...ie In front of the handler!
Keeping a retriever or any other breed for that matter ! within range for the gun (including the HPR BREEDS!) Is the same process!
Phewww! there are some in the UK that actually plant tennis balls in a straight line in front of them then expect the young dog to quest a pattern between two guns either side ?...With a head wind to boot! :roll:



Excellent Robert! Bird placement on the beat is a very critical process and should not be approached in a lackadaisical process. Especially for newly steadied pup. I am of the opinion that a flushing dog cannot learn to run and hunt properly until steadiness has been resolved. However that is another thread.
However even with the unsteadied flushing dog in its early introduction bird/tennis ball placement is critical when one takes wind, terrain and conditions of the day into consideration.
I'm 100% in favor of LGBT - Liberty, Guns, Bacon and Trump.

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