My dog needs help.

Rolltide93 · Post by **Rolltide93** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:19 am

Hey guys I've browsed these forums for about a year now. I bought my first true hunting dog about 8 months ago, so I am new to the whole training side of things. About a month ago I sent Tucker my GSP to a kennel for training, it was supposed to take around 3 to 4 months to complete but I called the guy last night to check on how things were going and the guy said he can't seem to get Tucker to trust him and that Tucker seems to be terrified of him. This is really strange from him because we live on a college campus and we go for walks daily so he is used to loud places and people. The trainer said if he can't get tucker to change in the next few weeks he is going to send him home, but he doesn't want too because he shows so much potential when he is in the field. I just need some advice on what I need to do as an owner to help him. Thanks guys. Also I'm not at all worried about him being mistreated this guy came well recommended and is a friend of a family friend.

GSP4ME · Post by **GSP4ME** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:44 am

Before I did anything else, I would go to this guys kennel and see first hand exactly what he's talking about.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:42 am

yep, go see what's going on. Did you take your pup out to open places and let him run while you had him? Could be he's just having aa problem adjusting to the situation and seemingly loss of his owner. I suspect he'll come around!

Rolltide93 · Post by **Rolltide93** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:36 am

I went Sunday and checked everything out. He would literally run away from the guy while he is in the kennel but once he is outside he acts fine, after about 30 minutes of me helping we finally got it to where the trainer could go get Tucker out of the kennel by himself. So hopefully he will be fine from here on out. He definitely acted like he didn't like the E Collar but I'm sure he will get used to it. One thing that did concern me though was how skinny he was, he looked like skin and bones.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:50 am

" it was supposed to take around 3 to 4 months to complete " quote

When I hear this I get nervous.

NOT saying all pro trainers are like this,( I have a great one I used occasionally), but when I was inexperienced /naïve, I was told by the trainer that he needed a "couple more months" as the weather had been very hot. I agreed, and eventually picked up an untrained dog. It wasn't the dog , as he became a derby dog- of - the - year .

How long has the dog been with your trainer now?

Definitely go see , but ..................

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:30 pm

50 years working professionally with dogs ,sounds to me like abuse!

chrokeva · Post by **chrokeva** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:53 pm

Rolltide93 wrote:I went Sunday and checked everything out. He would literally run away from the guy while he is in the kennel but once he is outside he acts fine, after about 30 minutes of me helping we finally got it to where the trainer could go get Tucker out of the kennel by himself. So hopefully he will be fine from here on out. He definitely acted like he didn't like the E Collar but I'm sure he will get used to it. One thing that did concern me though was how skinny he was, he looked like skin and bones.

I do not know if this is abuse or not but your dog is not thriving and if it was me I would not let this continue. This is your dog and if you are not there to make sure he is healthy and happy then who will?

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:58 pm

I wouldn't jump to conclusions. How did the other dogs there look and act. I don't think a trainer would pick out one dog to abuse. If all of the other dogs there looked and acted happy and healthy then I would think there is some kind of specific issue with your dog. I own several dogs and keep them in a kennel environment. Several years ago I bought a very well bred eighteen month old dog. This dog had been raised as a house pet. I kept the dog for a couple of years but he never did make the adjustment to living in a kennel. He just never seemed happy with me. I eventually gave up and gave him to someone that wanted a pet. It sounds to me like your dog has been a pet and received a lot of one on one attention and now he's in a kennel full of dogs and just doesn't know what to make of it. He may come around fine in a few weeks and he may not.

I really commend the trainer for letting you know that things were not working out. He could have kept the dog for months and charged you for keeping the dog for months even though the dog wasn't doing well.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:15 pm

I'm sure if he were in my kennel.he would not be skin and bones and would not be afraid of me.

NC Quailhunter · Post by **NC Quailhunter** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:21 pm

It sounds to me that the trainer is heavy handed. Not all dogs require a strong approach. I would go get my dog regain his trust , feed him and find amother trainer.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:35 pm

NC Quailhunter wrote:It sounds to me that the trainer is heavy handed. Not all dogs require a strong approach. I would go get my dog regain his trust , feed him and find amother trainer.

X2

"this guy came well recommended and is a friend of a family friend." quote ............Don't let this keep you from getting that dog asap.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:25 pm

Sharon & NC Quail hunter give GOOD advice

oilcan · Post by **oilcan** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:01 am

"NOT saying all pro trainers are like this,( I have a great one I used occasionally), but when I was inexperienced /naïve, I was told by the trainer that he needed a "couple more months" as the weather had been very hot. I agreed, and eventually picked up an untrained dog. It wasn't the dog , as he became a derby dog- of - the - year ."

""this guy came well recommended and is a friend of a family friend." quote ............Don't let this keep you from getting that dog asap."

Sharon i could not agree with this more.I could have used this advice myself earlier this summer.

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:14 am

The trainer is the one that alerted the op that there was a problem. The trainer suggested that the dog should go home if things didnt quickly improve. The trainer isn't trying to keep the dog for months and run the guy's bill up. The trainer is obviously concerned about the dog. This doesn't sound like the kind of person that is abusing and not feeding a dog. I have no idea who the trainer is, but I would like to know because I might consider using him sometime.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:02 am

rinker wrote:The trainer is the one that alerted the op that there was a problem. The trainer suggested that the dog should go home if things didnt quickly improve. The trainer isn't trying to keep the dog for months and run the guy's bill up. The trainer is obviously concerned about the dog. This doesn't sound like the kind of person that is abusing and not feeding a dog. I have no idea who the trainer is, but I would like to know because I might consider using him sometime.

The OP was the initiator of the call. What is the Pro going to say, (the dog is coming along fine)? The OP and Pro said the dog was doing ok in the field. I wonder what that means? Is it flash pointing birds? Has there been any yard work done? I would want to get more info. I have a new pup that I am taking on fee runs and I transport her to and from the field on my quad outfitted with several kennels. After the first run (which went fine) every time I would go to the dog yard to get her, she would run in her kennel. After about three times (runs) she would come to the gate to greet me every time I was running dogs. The only thing I could figure out was, she was initially frightened buy the ride in the quad. She has now adjusted and looks forward to her free runs. It could be just bad chemistry with the pro or separation anxiety but is sounds like a change is in order.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:07 am

If it was me, the dog would come home with me. Not because the pro is abusing the dog (no indication of that) but because the dog is not thriving there. He's loosing weight and acting scared. Doesn't sound like something I want to continue. He might do better with another trainer - and you may just need to attend some training sessions with your dog and learn to do it yourself. I have done a lot better with most of my dogs going to seminars and doing the work myself - they seem to handle it better.

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:28 am

[quoteThe OP was the initiator of the call. What is the Pro going to say, (the dog is coming along fine)?][/quote]
If the trainer were a heavy handed abuser, who doesn't feed dogs, and is only in it for the money, I think he would have said that the dog is doing fine.

[quoteIt could be just bad chemistry with the pro or separation anxiety but is sounds like a change is in order.][/quote]
I agree completely. I'm just not ready to jump to the conclusion that it is all the trainers fault as others on this thread have.

I have used a few trainers over the years. I train some dogs myself, but when my time is restricted or when I think that I have a really special dog that needs to spend the summer on the prairie, I will use a trainer. I have had good experiences and bad. I have had a dog die while in the care of a trainer. I just think that people responding to this thread are jumping to some conclusions very quickly. A lot more info is needed to determine if the trainer is really at fault. When I send a dog to a trainer, I always tell them that I want to know in 30 days if things aren't working out. This trainer seemed to give an honest evaluation at 30 days.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:12 am

The only thing I know for sure after reading this whole topic is that there are a lot of you that are willing to tell us your opinion that is based on what? I think the answer is very little since none of know a thing about the dog, the owner, the trainer, or the environment the dog is familiar with. One thing I do know is if I am looking for a trainer it will not be the people who have responded with so little knowledge.

Ezzy

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:35 am

ezzy333 wrote:The only thing I know for sure after reading this whole topic is that there are a lot of you that are willing to tell us your opinion that is based on what? I think the answer is very little since none of know a thing about the dog, the owner, the trainer, or the environment the dog is familiar with. One thing I do know is if I am looking for a trainer it will not be the people who have responded with so little knowledge.

Ezzy

Ezzy, isn't that what the OP wanted? Isn't that what this forum is all about? People are entitled to their opinions and I thought that this Forum was a place to do just that.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:00 pm

X2

The OP said , " I just need some advice on what I need to do as an owner to help him."

Now I could have just said- as I did - " Go get him and bring him home ." as my advice, but I think the OP always deserves a reason why you think that way.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:19 pm

You have a point and I have no problem with some one suggesting what it might be

"this guy came well recommended and is a friend of a family friend." quote ............Don't let this keep you from getting that dog asap.

I'm sure if he were in my kennel.he would not be skin and bones and would not be afraid of me.

It sounds to me that the trainer is heavy handed. Not all dogs require a strong approach. I would go get my dog regain his trust , feed him and find amother trainer.

50 years working professionally with dogs ,sounds to me like abuse!

Somehow these just sound like a little more than an opinion, especially when there has been nothing that indicates any of this except that a dog appears to be afraid of the trainer only when he is in the kennel.

On the other hand these two sound like appropriate things that would give the OP something to go on. And he did just that and stated his findings before these other quotes were even made.

Before I did anything else, I would go to this guys kennel and see first hand exactly what he's talking about.

yep, go see what's going on. Did you take your pup out to open places and let him run while you had him? Could be he's just having aa problem adjusting to the situation and seemingly loss of his owner. I suspect he'll come around!

Not a serious problem but it often appears on this type of post that people are willing to diagnose a problem with little to go on and state a definite problem while a few, and they practically all will be the first ones posted , that suggest what the poster could do or what it might be. And at least to me that seems a lot better than the others. Either way, you are correct, and many people find little validity in my opinions, so we will just leave it there.

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:37 pm

"many people find little validity in my opinions" quote Ezzy

Not me Sir. I respect you as a moderator and value your opinions 99% of the time.

Thank you for your contribution to this forum.

Rolltide93 · Post by **Rolltide93** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:49 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies! I Don't think he is abusing my dog at all. I called yesterday to ask and the trainer said he has come full circle, he said all around tucker just seems happier. I don't know if he just thought he got abandoned ( he is definitely my dog and he knows it and he has always been sensitive.) or what. Maybe he just needed to see me and realize I haven't left him. Another reason I say this guy wasn't abusing my dog is he brought up the idea of me coming everyday to help train since I only live 30 minutes away. About him being skinny, because I asked yesterday, the trainer would give him food and he wouldn't eat it just leave it in his dish , but he is starting to now. Hopefully all issues have been resolved but I will keep y'all up to date. Thanks for everything guys.

NC Quailhunter · Post by **NC Quailhunter** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:55 pm

While I may not have the same experience as others I do have some. My comment about the heavy hand is based on the OP stating that the dog is cowering on the kennel. I have never had a dog that I was working with act that way. They usually meet me at the gate exciited to go. Maybe as I gain mpre experoence a dog will demonstrate this.
The comment about feeding the dog is self explanatory. The dog has lost weight and as the OP saod looks like skin and bones. So to get the dog back to where he should be he will have to feed him.
The jist was get the dog because he isn't doing well in this guys system. Feed him to get him back to his ideal weight and find another trainer or do it yourself.
Nothing negative was said in my post and the attacks on me are what is uncalled for. It seems like some always want to berate others if they don't agree with what they think. If we can't have civilized discussion without calling eachother names then we as a community will continue to decline.
I hope the OP can gleen the information he needs from this thread and get his dog to be the dog he wants and that the dog can be.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:48 pm

Ezzy,

First of all Thank you for doing this "thankless" job as moderator.. I think we are cut from the same cloth (hope this does not insult you). I am retired and no longer feel the need to be diplomatic about how I express myself and many times say what I feel. It can be good or bad but people know where I stand. I think you can be the same way and I respect that. I didn't say that I agree with everything you say but I think you are entitled to your opinion as everyone else is too.

Respectfully yours,

AZ

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:57 am

Rolltide93 wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies! I Don't think he is abusing my dog at all. I called yesterday to ask and the trainer said he has come full circle, he said all around tucker just seems happier. I don't know if he just thought he got abandoned ( he is definitely my dog and he knows it and he has always been sensitive.) or what. Maybe he just needed to see me and realize I haven't left him. Another reason I say this guy wasn't abusing my dog is he brought up the idea of me coming everyday to help train since I only live 30 minutes away. About him being skinny, because I asked yesterday, the trainer would give him food and he wouldn't eat it just leave it in his dish , but he is starting to now. Hopefully all issues have been resolved but I will keep y'all up to date. Thanks for everything guys.

Absolutely take the guy up on the offer to come and learn yourself. Make it a priority. That way you'll be familiar with his training methods and you'll do better with your dog when he comes home! Great news that he's doing better!

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:16 am

Rolltide93 wrote:Hey guys I've browsed these forums for about a year now. I bought my first true hunting dog about 8 months ago, so I am new to the whole training side of things. About a month ago I sent Tucker my GSP to a kennel for training, it was supposed to take around 3 to 4 months to complete but I called the guy last night to check on how things were going and the guy said he can't seem to get Tucker to trust him and that Tucker seems to be terrified of him. This is really strange from him because we live on a college campus and we go for walks daily so he is used to loud places and people. The trainer said if he can't get tucker to change in the next few weeks he is going to send him home, but he doesn't want too because he shows so much potential when he is in the field. I just need some advice on what I need to do as an owner to help him. Thanks guys. Also I'm not at all worried about him being mistreated this guy came well recommended and is a friend of a family friend.

We have had both our dogs with trainers because frankly, they have the experience, equipment, land, and knowledge to do what we can't do, which is break a dog. However, after the introductory "trust earning stage", where we didn't come see the dog for about two weeks, we spent as much time up at the trainer's as we possibly could so we could all learn the system together. We thought it very important that we understood what was going on so that the methodology was consistent. Because subsequent training would have to be built on that foundation.

So yes, go up & spend as much time as you can working with the trainer & the dog. However, I would carefully observe the dog's behaviour & demeanour around this handler. It the dog is still loosing weight & showing fear around the trainer after about a month of being up there, then I would definitely consider another trainer because things should start to smooth out after a month.

FWIW,

rinker · Post by **rinker** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:35 am

Imagine that, the trainer is apparently a good guy with the dog's best interest at heart, not a heavy handed, non-feeding abuser.

Vikingoo168 · Post by **Vikingoo168** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:49 pm

My dog went to a trainer as well and about 1.5 months into his training he shut down... The trainer contacted me and worked with me to get him fired up again. It took several weeks of keeping everything fun and birdy, but he came back around and now his prey drive is full throttle, probably the highest they have ever seen. This is my first bird dog so I am no expert on this at all, but it just seemed like a maturity problem and not a trainer problem. Just like us these pups can go through moments of mental stress and maybe this was one of them especially if it is a young pup under 2 years of age.

Rolltide93 · Post by **Rolltide93** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:12 pm

To be honest I figured he would have some trouble adjusting, just not this much trouble. Its always been Him myself and my girlfriend, he wasn't used to sleeping in a kennel and it probably was just a huge culture shock to him. I would have trained him myself but being a full time student and working a full time internship it is tough to find that much time to devote. I'm just glad to know that soon I will have my companion back and he will be ready to hunt. It really is tough sending your dog away for that long.

Rolltide93 · Post by **Rolltide93** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:14 pm

Sharon wrote:" it was supposed to take around 3 to 4 months to complete " quote

When I hear this I get nervous.

NOT saying all pro trainers are like this,( I have a great one I used occasionally), but when I was inexperienced /naïve, I was told by the trainer that he needed a "couple more months" as the weather had been very hot. I agreed, and eventually picked up an untrained dog. It wasn't the dog , as he became a derby dog- of - the - year .

How long has the dog been with your trainer now?

Definitely go see , but ..................

Why does this make you nervous? He said it should only take 3 months to train him. Is this to short of a time or is this about normal?

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:55 pm

It doesn't sound like the OP is in a bad spot, but for future reference, make sure you put in time and go see your dog while in training.

I got a new lab puppy last winter and had a surprise deployment pop up that I got back from a few weeks ago. While I was gone, I sent my pup (6 months at the time) to the retriever trainer I got him from. He was well liked and many people bragged about him on another forum. He told me all summer about my dogs progress, and told me he was finishing swim by as I got home. I picked him up at the 4 month mark. The "pro" had been lying to me for months and had actually just fed the dog all summer and nothing else. No training at all.

It took me going to another pro, getting his evaluation and proof the original pro was lying before he finally semi/admitted it but gave me my money back. Ended up he had decide not to train, was supposedly selling all his gear, etc and figured he'd try and scrape some cash off me while I was deployed, knowing I couldn't see my dog in real life and pull him from training.

Many months of wasted time later, He just finished formal obedience and CC and am starting FF with a pro I am good friends with now.

Moral of the story:
Don't trust the word of a "pro" 100%. See it for your own eyes if you're concerned. I wish I had.

I know how much better a dog trained thoroughly by a pro is, but this guy was just a lazy lying sack of crap...

setterpoint · Post by **setterpoint** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:09 pm

im new to this forum but heres my op my dogs stand and jump at the gate when I start to them wanting to have there turn I have seen shy and timed dogs at first but in a few days they are just as excited your dog should be having the time of his life and excited to get at them birds

TonyS · Post by **TonyS** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:23 am

Thank god I bought a llewellin.

Gun Dog Forum

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