A New Look in His Eye

sethonthefly · Post by **sethonthefly** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:48 pm

Since I live in town I don't have field to take my 13month old Brittany, but Im fortunate that I have an old abandoned golf course that we frequent. Since he was about 8 months, I've taken him 2-3 times a week for walks. He's done well by hunting out front, staying close and even coming and quartering on whistle commands. Yesterday, when I took him, there seemed to be a change. He is more independent and ranges further out. Before he seemed to be "hunting" for me and now he's hunting for him. My biggest concern is his one track mind and isnt responding to my commands. Should I put him back on the check cord or should introduce the ecollar?

CDN_Cocker · Post by **CDN_Cocker** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:13 pm

Why are you concerned about him ranging farther? He's a pointing dog

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:43 pm

I would intro the ecollar now, but this need to be done correctly (with known commands, overlaying the ecollar with the checkcord. Huntsmith does well explaining this)

Still you should let the pup roll on your walks, but when he blows you off you have the ecollar (after properly introduced) for correction.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:12 pm

I am thinking you would have done better with a flushing dog or retriever, but suspect you are now bonded.

Introduce the e-collar properly, and keep him as close as you want, you are giving up his best strength, but it is your choice, I will never convince you of your errors here.

I really believe there should be a test before you should be able to buy a pointing dog. I cringe when I think of the dogs that are being punished.

sethonthefly · Post by **sethonthefly** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:17 pm

ROTTnBRITT wrote:I would intro the ecollar now, but this need to be done correctly (with known commands, overlaying the ecollar with the checkcord. Huntsmith does well explaining this)

Still you should let the pup roll on your walks, but when he blows you off you have the ecollar (after properly introduced) for correction.

Thanks. Its not the range I was worried about. I was glad to see his new independence. It was the lack of control. I probably should have asked if 13 weeks is too young to introduce the ecollar. I wasn't sure how to let him range out and still control him at such a young age.

Doc E · Post by **Doc E** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:20 pm

So are there any wild birds on this abandoned golf course ?
If not, are you planting any birds for him to find ?

If not, why not ?

.

sethonthefly · Post by **sethonthefly** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:34 pm

Doc E wrote:So are there any wild birds on this abandoned golf course ?
If not, are you planting any birds for him to find ?

If not, why not ?

.

Yes... I put him on planted birds about once per week and he's doing well. Finding them and flash pointing pretty good. Taking a little break because of the 100 degree weather here in Alabama. Also, I've been using the same quail for a few weeks now and they aren't flying real well anymore. Ill probably wait until it cools down and I can get some more birds.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:53 pm

Is the dog 13 months or 13 weeks, facts are important if you expect meaningful assistance.

Other than an emergency dangerous situations, I ask a pointing dog to bend with me and continue to independently hunt, it is what they should do. I am going to abandon this post before I get cranky.

Tooling · Post by **Tooling** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:51 am

...also keep in mind. You don't really know your dogs range at this point, your dog doesn't either - you need (or should) afford him the opportunity to figure this out (safely of course) - plenty of birds and fun is the key.

shags · Post by **shags** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:59 am

Tooling wrote:
Neil wrote: I am going to abandon this post before I get cranky.
You wont leave..this is the perfect opportunity to brow beat the heck out of somebody while proclaiming your vast dog training knowledge and superiority - this is perfect for you!!

A test before buying a dog...let me guess, you would be the judge, what a pompous a$$ you are...leave the guy alone.

--------

Let pup have a bit of independence and get out there a bit..once he is out get him in cheerfully and toss a bird or two from a bag on your side - pup will make a fun association with you & birds in the field and you will be on your way to being connected with your pup in the field no matter his range.

Just so you know, Neil DOES have vast knowledge and is respected by dogmen with more savvy and experience than most of us can ever hope for. Some of his replies may be given somewhat tongue in cheek but they are drawn from a very deep well.
If you disagree with him, fine, but such disrespect is uncalled for.

gundogguy · Post by **gundogguy** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:35 am

Neil wrote:I am thinking you would have done better with a flushing dog or retriever, but suspect you are now bonded.

Introduce the e-collar properly, and keep him as close as you want, you are giving up his best strength, but it is your choice, I will never convince you of your errors here.

I really believe there should be a test before you should be able to buy a pointing dog. I cringe when I think of the dogs that are being punished.

I tend to favour that sort of format. Though I would also include flushing and retrieving dogs in that evaluation as well. Most of the "test" or evaluation would be based on how much information the pup buyer had a accumulated before actually visiting a breeder or dog seller. If the new owner is going into a situation blind what hope does the pup of ever developing any where near it's real potential. More on this later I you all wish have clients coming early today!

Trekmoor · Post by **Trekmoor** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:32 am

I would do more stop, turn and recall commands using the whistle. Begin close in , very close in , maybe no more than 20 yards and only when the pup always obeys at close distances allow it another 10 yards or so of hunting range. Should it ignore you at the slightly longer range begin again closer in . If the dog wants to hunt then it is allowed to do so at your direction and for both of you not just for itself.

Personally I don't want my own young Brittany to range miles out, I am happy with the 60 -200 yards she normally does. I haven't found I need to use an e-collar at those sort of distances if I have laid the obedience foundations properly..... and then done some maintenance work on them from time to time. In other words reverting to only close distance ranging again for a few moments.

Bill T.

sethonthefly · Post by **sethonthefly** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:51 am

First of all, forgive me for initially saying the pup was 13 months. He's just 13 weeks. That makes a big difference. I took him out this morning with a couple of quail. I'd just toss them out when he wasnt looking. He'd find them, flash point and then chase. He still had that new found independence but seemed to be paying more attention to me (and the birds for that matter). He obeyed the whistle a couple of times when I would quarter him and he'd find the bird. He seems to be figuring out that we are in this together. Not just running at full bore. All in all-Im pretty happy with him. He hunts hard; good prey drive and good pointing instinct. And he's getting more and more excited about birds every week and were just trying to keep everything fun- especially around birds. I'll be introducing the gun in a month or so. Thanks for the input.

shags · Post by **shags** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:31 am

My pups start wearing an ecollar at about that age. I leave the transmitter at home; that way there is absolutely no chance to do something stupid out of frustration before they are conditioned to stimulation. But they very quickly learn that ecollar=funinthefield.
Then, they are conditioned to it for two commands - a recall and to turn with me. I do this in the yard or my horse pasture watching closely to determine the lowest stim level that gets a reaction.
In this way my dogs are ready for correction when they reach that stage where they start to blow me off in the field, IME at around 5-6 months. If they ignore a command, a nick at that level ( for my dogs, a 2 on my TT) does the trick. They always seem surprised that I can reach out and touch them from a distance like that, and they rarely need more than one or two corrections.

Good luck with your pup.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:34 am

A 13 week old puppy is a baby and anything he does at that age is a bonus. I would still be taking a pup that age to the field and walking with my mouth shut. When we are home I would be training lightly to come, kennel, and to go out side to potty. A little leash training might be appropriate also. The most important word in dog training is patience, and the ability to use it is the hardest part. Once you get yourself trained you will find the pup has learned a lot also.

PATIENCE

Ezzy

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:34 am

sethonthefly wrote:First of all, forgive me for initially saying the pup was 13 months. He's just 13 weeks. That makes a big difference. I took him out this morning with a couple of quail. I'd just toss them out when he wasnt looking. He'd find them, flash point and then chase. He still had that new found independence but seemed to be paying more attention to me (and the birds for that matter). He obeyed the whistle a couple of times when I would quarter him and he'd find the bird. He seems to be figuring out that we are in this together. Not just running at full bore. All in all-Im pretty happy with him. He hunts hard; good prey drive and good pointing instinct. And he's getting more and more excited about birds every week and were just trying to keep everything fun- especially around birds. I'll be introducing the gun in a month or so. Thanks for the input.

Dude do not get an e-collar yet. You haven't even begun training. Cool your jets. Honestly posts like this make me mad because your dog isn't special. This topic has been covered numerous times in your posts. Get a program, learn what you're doing, and learn what a pointer should do.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:08 am

ezzy333 wrote:A 13 week old puppy is a baby and anything he does at that age is a bonus. I would still be taking a pup that age to the field and walking with my mouth shut. When we are home I would be training lightly to come, kennel, and to go out side to potty. A little leash training might be appropriate also. The most important word in dog training is patience, and the ability to use it is the hardest part. Once you get yourself trained you will find the pup has learned a lot also.

PATIENCE

Ezzy

Exactly. well said.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:09 am

Neil wrote:I am thinking you would have done better with a flushing dog or retriever, but suspect you are now bonded.

Introduce the e-collar properly, and keep him as close as you want, you are giving up his best strength, but it is your choice, I will never convince you of your errors here.

I really believe there should be a test before you should be able to buy a pointing dog. I cringe when I think of the dogs that are being punished.

So much truth in a nutshell..Sh

,,,,,,,,,

Seth: The abandoned golf course in town is unlikely to be sufficient any longer. Work at finding a bigger safe property in the country that you can use .

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:20 am

The OP just asked for a bit of information. No need to shoot him. He has as much right to buy a pointing pup as any body else. Did you experts have to learn or were you born knowing it all. Would you have passed some kind of a test before you got your first pointer or any other dog for that matter. Do you people really think a dog who is not trained to a finished level is being punished. I strongly suspect that the dog does not care one bit about being steady and is probably much happier if he is allowed to chase birds and have fun all his life. Way more punishment comes from egotistical trainers who think they are more important in the world than they really are. We know what most National Champions would do to the trophy if he had his choice.
To the OP, let the puppy be a puppy. Don't try to call him off when he is chasing, or other situations when you know he will not listen, you are just teaching him to blow you off. He will come back. If he starts to catch the birds get better birds or quit planting them.
A few birds go along ways at this age. More yard training and eventually collar conditioning. If you can get in wild birds that is the key. Well bred dogs do not have to be trained to point. They learn by bird experience.........................Cj

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:42 pm

cjhills wrote:The OP just asked for a bit of information. No need to shoot him. He has as much right to buy a pointing pup as any body else. Did you experts have to learn or were you born knowing it all. Would you have passed some kind of a test before you got your first pointer or any other dog for that matter. Do you people really think a dog who is not trained to a finished level is being punished. I strongly suspect that the dog does not care one bit about being steady and is probably much happier if he is allowed to chase birds and have fun all his life. Way more punishment comes from egotistical trainers who think they are more important in the world than they really are. We know what most National Champions would do to the trophy if he had his choice.
To the OP, let the puppy be a puppy. Don't try to call him off when he is chasing, or other situations when you know he will not listen, you are just teaching him to blow you off. He will come back. If he starts to catch the birds get better birds or quit planting them.
A few birds go along ways at this age. More yard training and eventually collar conditioning. If you can get in wild birds that is the key. Well bred dogs do not have to be trained to point. They learn by bird experience.........................Cj

Pretty good post and then you ended up doing exactly what everyone was doing. Welcome aboard. You are right that pointers don't have to be trained to point and they also don't have to learn it, as you said it is in the genes(well-bred was your word for it). Birds in any stage of wildness, no matter if hatched in the wild or in a pen are great tools to teach the pup to hold a point, when to point, and if they even should point.

So the point is each and everyone of us did what we could to relay our experiences to the OP. And each was somewhat different and the only post that was 100% accurate was our own and the rest probably just confused the issue.

Ezzy

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:45 pm

ezzy;
Some day I might understand what you are talking about..............Nah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...................Cj

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:50 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
cjhills wrote:The OP just asked for a bit of information. No need to shoot him. He has as much right to buy a pointing pup as any body else. Did you experts have to learn or were you born knowing it all. Would you have passed some kind of a test before you got your first pointer or any other dog for that matter. Do you people really think a dog who is not trained to a finished level is being punished. I strongly suspect that the dog does not care one bit about being steady and is probably much happier if he is allowed to chase birds and have fun all his life. Way more punishment comes from egotistical trainers who think they are more important in the world than they really are. We know what most National Champions would do to the trophy if he had his choice.
To the OP, let the puppy be a puppy. Don't try to call him off when he is chasing, or other situations when you know he will not listen, you are just teaching him to blow you off. He will come back. If he starts to catch the birds get better birds or quit planting them.
A few birds go along ways at this age. More yard training and eventually collar conditioning. If you can get in wild birds that is the key. Well bred dogs do not have to be trained to point. They learn by bird experience.........................Cj
Pretty good post and then you ended up doing exactly what everyone was doing. Welcome aboard. You are right that pointers don't have to be trained to point and they also don't have to learn it, as you said it is in the genes(well-bred was your word for it). Birds in any stage of wildness, no matter if hatched in the wild or in a pen are great tools to teach the pup to hold a point, when to point, and if they even should point.

So the point is each and everyone of us did what we could to relay our experiences to the OP. And each was somewhat different and the only post that was 100% accurate was our own and the rest probably just confused the issue.

Ezzy

ROFLMBo - so true... I always think mine is the best post. NOT.

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