So the past few times out training I've noticed my 1yr3mos old gsp pup will point the birds, but occasionally creeps in right on top of the launcher then runs off like it's just a game of tag or something as if to say "I found the bird, now I'm off to play again". You're probably wondering why I didn't launch the bird the second he moved from point right? Well the reason is I am using chukars instead of pigeons because that's all that I can get around here and they're not strong flyers and he can easily chase them down. I have also noticed that if I am close by within 30-40yds he will not move from point but if he's over say 100yds which is usually the case then that's when he's more likely to move in because he knows I can't enforce him. How do I go about correcting this? Keep him on a checkcord at all times? I've been training whoa at home and ballparks and he does fine but obviously it's not very effective in the bird field over longer distances because he keeps blowing me off. I train in a roughly 350yd wide square field and most times he's halfway down the field or further so he has plenty of time to blow me off.
I also think he smells the path that I took and I've seen him abruptly change course as soon as he hits this. His staunchness is totally different when he follows my scent into the birds versus when he comes into them from downwind side and he's pointing much further. When he goes on point from the side I came in on he's very close to where he could actually see the launcher. Heck he probably didn't stop until he saw the launcher. Fwiw I lost a chukar in the field once because the launcher detonated prematurely. I thought that bird flew to the woods somewhere never to be seen again. Turns out it landed somewhere in the field and when my dog hit that birds scent he slammed on point HARD and he didn't move. That was the most intense point I'd seen so far and it wasn't staged.
What am I doing wrong and what should I be doing? Thanks.
Running in on birds
Re: Running in on birds
Finds some pigeons under a bridge ( FREE) then repeat and launch the birds. Never use bad flying birds with a dog not under control. The "Lets see what happens if..." idea never ends good.
But BEFORE, I would have him atleast conditioned to stop to nick trained. Every time he took a step I would nick.
But that is just me, I use check cords only to catch pups,then they are gone. But if you have no way of controlling him over 100 yards, then he shouldnt be going over a hundred yards until you can.
But BEFORE, I would have him atleast conditioned to stop to nick trained. Every time he took a step I would nick.
But that is just me, I use check cords only to catch pups,then they are gone. But if you have no way of controlling him over 100 yards, then he shouldnt be going over a hundred yards until you can.
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RayGubernat
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Re: Running in on birds
Mister2 -
It sounds as if your dog is staunch and will go with the flight of the bird. Ordinarily that is fine for a hunting dog, but the fact that the dog is not steady to wing and shot does make your current situation much more difficult to deal with.
I suggest you take your dog training to the next level and get the dog steady to wing and shot...at least for now. I would do the yardwork necessary and that would include tempting the dog in the yard with birds.
Once the dog is reliably steady in the yard, I would go to the field and do some "stop to flush" drills. Once the dog has the idea firmly in its head that it must stop when it sees a flying bird...then you can go back to the birds in launchers and do what you need to do. Once the dog has been steadied, chasing ,after the bird has been launched, tossed, flown or whatever...is an obedience breach and the dog can and should be corrected for chasing.
It definitely sounds like you have a pretty smart dog there and it is pretty familiar with your routine and your training area. The "playing tag" with the launchers is clear evidence that the dog is playing a game within your game because it is bored. You REALLY need to change stuff up and keep the dog guessing. Make a conscious effort to do things differently. It also sounds as if you might be overdoing the bird thing. Too much birdwork, especially when it is repetitive, is not good and no birds at all are sometimes better than poor flying ones.
If you can get the dog on some wild birds, that should stop all the nonsense without having to get the dog steady to wing and shot. It might be well worth a road trip to the grouse woods.
RayG
RayG
It sounds as if your dog is staunch and will go with the flight of the bird. Ordinarily that is fine for a hunting dog, but the fact that the dog is not steady to wing and shot does make your current situation much more difficult to deal with.
I suggest you take your dog training to the next level and get the dog steady to wing and shot...at least for now. I would do the yardwork necessary and that would include tempting the dog in the yard with birds.
Once the dog is reliably steady in the yard, I would go to the field and do some "stop to flush" drills. Once the dog has the idea firmly in its head that it must stop when it sees a flying bird...then you can go back to the birds in launchers and do what you need to do. Once the dog has been steadied, chasing ,after the bird has been launched, tossed, flown or whatever...is an obedience breach and the dog can and should be corrected for chasing.
It definitely sounds like you have a pretty smart dog there and it is pretty familiar with your routine and your training area. The "playing tag" with the launchers is clear evidence that the dog is playing a game within your game because it is bored. You REALLY need to change stuff up and keep the dog guessing. Make a conscious effort to do things differently. It also sounds as if you might be overdoing the bird thing. Too much birdwork, especially when it is repetitive, is not good and no birds at all are sometimes better than poor flying ones.
If you can get the dog on some wild birds, that should stop all the nonsense without having to get the dog steady to wing and shot. It might be well worth a road trip to the grouse woods.
RayG
RayG
Re: Running in on birds
Pigeon's, definitely! You have in effect taught your dog that chukar are training birds. keep doing it and your gonna have a dog that treats chukars the same way some people's dogs treat pigeons. You make a training bird out of it or you simply use it to train with but keep it wild as possible. A pigeon will get off the ground very much like a wild bird, if you do your job! Some good flying game birds can fly quite a ways yet some don't, even in the same bunch. They fly off a 100-150 yds and your dog goes with the bird, your dog will probably catch the bird! The bird won't go much farther than that because that's as far as it can go. The dog will get there and the bird has nothing left. it was already mentioned, pigeon's are free!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: Running in on birds
Thanks for all the great advice. Guess it's time to hit the grouse woods. I'll have better luck finding them than pigeons.
It's a 2hr roundtrip drive just to get the chukars so if I'm lucky I'll train once a week, mostly it's every other week using 2 chukars each time. I didn't think that was enough.
It's crazy how quickly he picks up on this stuff.
It's a 2hr roundtrip drive just to get the chukars so if I'm lucky I'll train once a week, mostly it's every other week using 2 chukars each time. I didn't think that was enough.
It's crazy how quickly he picks up on this stuff.
Re: Running in on birds
Where do you live that you can't find pigeons?
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!
Re: Running in on birds
Having pigeons is like having money, it's only a problem if you don't have any. They're everywhere but netting under bridges at night is probably a quick way of drawing attention to yourself by the local authority. Believe me I've thought about it but it's just a bird, I'm not ready for that. I've asked farmers as well, the last thing a farmer wants to do is cater to some kid wanting to catch some pigeons in his barn after dark after he's been busting tail all day. There was also the issue of liability. I just asked the facilities management at my workplace if I could trap some here since we actually do have pigeon problems. The birds are flying in and out of the buildings. I'm really hoping they will allow me then I'll be all set. They're still reviewing it however it wouldn't surprise me if they denied me, again due to insurance and liability stuff. It would probably take an act of congress for a corporation to allow that. I have also asked hotels too which were having pigeons poop all over their signs but same thing.
Re: Running in on birds
Just got a response from my workplace. They said no. Reason is same as for geese on the property. They are pests but they cannot be trapped so same rules apply for pigeons. Oh well, can't say I didn't try.
Running in on birds
I buy mine from local farmer swap meets. They have just about every bird you'd want at those things.