E-collar tips

Colleen · Post by **Colleen** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:44 pm

We are going to get an e-collar soon to iron out any bumps with commands. I want to use it sparingly, but I'd like some ideas on how to prevent my dog from getting collar-wise and using it as a "hearing aid."

What is the best way to introduce it and continue with it so that he doesn't just listen while it's on and forget I exist when it's not?

icefire · Post by **icefire** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:53 pm

first, as grant suggests, get the perfect start and the perfect finish. this will cover proper collar introduction and usage. second, get a quality collar with indexing levels such as the tritronics pro 100. third, never run your dog without the collar except in field trials, even as a pup, once you start training, 4 or 5 months old have the collar on the dog. this does not mean use it, but if it is a normal part of the dogs everyday routine, especially for months before ti is ever used and later after training when you don't need to use it, there won't be that much of a connection.

tfbirddog2 · Post by **tfbirddog2** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:12 am

I hate to say it, but every dog gets collar wise if you run it on them every time you go train or hunt which is important to do so to make them routine. It is always best say the dogs name the command and then if you have to buzz them. That way they learn that when they goof or don't listen to you here comes the buzz of knowledge. I have also taught my dogs with whistle so when they are out to far an I whistle an they don't start to head back I will buzz them, an my 17 month old GSP Sassy already knows about how far she can get out before she needs to come back. Also don't worry about hurting the dog they might yep when you buzz them, but each dog is different in reacting to E-collars. My Sassy balls like a baby,Sammy jumps like something bit her in the butt, and Daisy just runs a little faster back to my direction. Infact I don't run a collar on Daisy since she really doesn't need it she minds pretty well an alot of dogs get to that point of hunting that way. Once at the begining of the season I put it on her not turned on but just a reminder of I in controll here an you are working for me. I think that is the whole point of collars so they hunt for you not themselves. Good luck.

icefire · Post by **icefire** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:21 pm

Well i don't hate to say it but I really think that you are wrong. That little piece of advice came from one of the top pointing breed trainers in the country. If you only put the collar on the dog when you use it then the connection is made. if it is a part of their normal routine long before it is ever used and on plenty of sessions during training when you do not use it then they do not necessarily connect the collar with the stimulation. If you are getting yelps/cries out of your dogs when you use the collar then you really need to go back and revisit your training program. it is not neceswsary to make the dog yelp. very very rarly do you use that high of power. If you have to use the collar to keep your dog in what you consider the proper range, then the dog has not yet learned enough or you bought a dog that is not right for you. plenty of dogs are bred to be bootlickers. Please, before you keep shocking your dogs that hard, get with some folks that know what they are doing and work with them for a while. I have very hard headed bold dogs and I do not need to use that sort of punishment.

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:14 pm

While I agree with most of what you're saying, ice, it should also be noted that some dogs will just yelp because of the surprise of getting zapped, and not because they're being jolted with a high setting. Some dogs are just that soft.

icefire · Post by **icefire** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:36 pm

if the dog is really that soft then turn it down! if the dog is so soft that a collar will illicit that type of reaction from the lowest settings i would persue other avenues of correction. 2 of my dogs i would consider pretty soft and I use the collar on them and have not had them yelp or jump yet. one is early on in training the other is just about done. if the dog is trained, before it is corrected, then the correction rarely needs to be harsh. there are exceptions, it is true but they are rare and if a dog is hard headed enough you can usually use a pretty hard setting without that type of reaction. only around sankes and other trash breaking is it usually necessary to fry the dog like that and then it is a once or twice thing and you don't need it after that. it sounded to me like he uses it quite often to get his dogs back in and it also sounded like he was getting pretty serious reaction out of 2 or 3 dogs. not the kind of advice i like seeing go out to folks that don't know any better, in this case very often less is better. the collar is for occasional corrections, not to teach the dog how to do something.

dhondtm · Post by **dhondtm** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:00 pm

I'll let you all know how far I get with my dogs over the years. But, I don't plan on using the E-collars at all. 1. They cost too much..... 2. I just think I can do with out it. I agree with the last post too, you possibly need an e-collar for corrections with some dogs. If I get into that kind of trouble then that’s as far as I am taking that dogs training. Honestly, that means they might not make it to Master Hunter but that’s ok with me. I'll take her training as far as she will let me with a lot of patience and fun. I just don't see the e-collar as a necessary training tool. But thats just me. Maybe I am the one thats soft.

I have heard others that had miss-used the e-collar and they could never get the dog to hunt again. Another took them a year before they could get it back out in the field. Just be very careful guys when introducing the e-collars and be sure to introduce the dogs to it early in your training (and I don't mean shock em’) Just get the e-collar on them and make sure they are having fun with it on, so they don't associate that shock with the collar, when it is finally time to use it. Good Luck

tfbirddog2 · Post by **tfbirddog2** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:41 pm

dhondtm, for the breed you are runnin weims are very easy to train and listen pretty well, I don't think you need much luck just good TLC and one-on-one training you'll be fine. You're right too they are expensive no matter what brand. Ice, I guide so I'm pretty sure I 've done alright on my end of training. You have the right to disagree with me,and you don't have to use or listen to my suggestions. Personally I have watched tapes for tips or spotters on pointing or backing, but who do you want to train the dog, you or the tapes. Each dog is formated to the owners style. I would never want a dog that is steady-wing-to-shot pointless cause if you don't kill the bird on first shot and then you tell the dog go fetch that dog has a long day before it. Back to collar training my dogs get a little buzz say when they get to far out and I have whistled two or three times without a response. I am not correcting the dog controlling. I don't want to be one of those guys my clients talk about having out-of-controll dogs like yelling my head off whistling till I'm blue and dogs 1/2 a mile ahead of my hunters. To let you know there are two dogs a the lodge litter mate Zorro(black GSP)an J.W. you can turn my collars up all the way(tritronics) and fry them and they will just look at you. Every dog has a different way of taking e-colars believe me I have seen alot of yeps,balling,jumpping never breaking strides on viberate to the highest settings. You train your way and all do mine.Thank you and Good luck.

boesman · Post by **boesman** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:23 pm

Hi guys

don't want to start a fight but isn't it better just to train the dog to the point where you completely trust one another.Down here i know of nobody that uses them(maybe 'cause we didn't have them till about a year ago)and all the hunts i've been on there was two types of dogs,the well trained and the not so well trained-and you could clearly see the difference.

I also just use the whistle with my GWP and so far so good.I,m also a firm believer that if obedience(sit,come,stay)isn't at least 100% the dog shouldnt be hunting yet.

Just my 2 cents worth(maybe isn't even worth that much)

fc

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:50 pm

fc,
You're right, e-collars aren't needed for training...how ever did trainers/guides/casual hunters get along with them in the past?

They can be a wonderful tool and they can also be a terrible crutch. I personally don't use the collar until AFTER the dogs know what they are doing. Only at that time, do I use the lowest hits. I also agree on it mattering on the personality of the dogs too. However, no matter how soft a dog, they shouldn't yelp at a hit on the lowest setting. As for dogs getting collar-wise, I believe they do. I can get the collar out and the dogs know right away what's expected of them. The younger ones wear it while out in the yard playing...for road safety reasons. The older ones wear it when they are hunting...for deer chasing possibilities and when we go for walks on the roads. Other than that, I don't use them. It's way too easy to have it become a replacement for the good old "time/patience training".

In getting back to Colleen's question....
Once the dog knows what's expected of him from you, should you use the e-collar. Call the command a few times, if he doesn't listen then give him a hit on the lowest setting. I give the dog plenty of chances before he gets hit any harder...except when they're heading towards the road. Then they don't get any verbal warning but only a hit on the highest setting so that they remember that going by the road is going to result in very bad feelings. Once your dog is trained, he's not going to forget what he's learned. The biggest thing to keep him remembering what to do is to always say the command that you want and then hit him with it if he chooses to not listen to you.

Post by **Ayres** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:48 am

I'll note that I haven't used an e-collar, yet. I've ordered the Perfection Kennels DVD set though, and they go through proper introduction to the e-collar. I really don't think I'll have a problem with training Justus to need it, but I do think I will need to use it from time to time as a reminder to listen to my commands. Right now he's got a mind of his own and when he's on a running rampage he won't listen to the "here" command no matter how I say it. I don't want him to run into a road because he didn't listen to me (and, believe me it's that he chooses not to listen, not that he doesn't know), so the e-collar will be used as a tool to help with those corrections.

Also, I have heard stories about a super-soft dog like I mentioned above. This is probably, though, the rare exception and definately not the norm. You just hear about them more often because they're not normal, y'know?

Now.. has anyone been using a SportDog collar for awhile? I know SportDog is a newer company without the reputation (and price tag) of a Dogtra, Innotek or TriTronics collar, but I hear they're good and I'm looking for one more confirmation to that thought before ordering one.

tfbirddog2 · Post by **tfbirddog2** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:04 pm

I agree completely with Boesman,and Patty. Thats what I was saying after you have asked of the command a few times an they do not respond use the collar thats why you paid the money for it. It also goes on how much you train them an work on their starter comands (sit,stay,come,etc.) that will help you on not having to use the collars has much. Take Saturday nite I took my three girls out for the first time this year open feild for dove an all I really need was the whistle the collars were turned on an not used which just reassured that my training sessions had worked the collars were there just maybe incase. Ayres as far a sportdog no I have not seen them used yet ,but I used to have a DT collar an it was reasonablly price and worked very well on training my halfbreed. I went to the Multisport Tritronics 3 dog,which I have been happy with the best part was the price (not a slam) but innotec has not really impressed me especaily their price. But some people like chevy an others like fords If you know what I mean. Good luck finding a collar you like if you get one.

Colleen · Post by **Colleen** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:21 am

Thanks for all the replies guys. Patty, Steven and dhondtm hit it right on the head. I am not going to be trialing or testing my dog, and he's 14 months old now, so his commands are in place and he knows what is expected of him. My primary reason for the e-collar is for corrections, and mostly for situations where I feel he may not be motivated to just listen to my voice (like Patty's deer-chasing example) or where I need him to react immediately, say when he's about to jump into a swamp with a hungry gator lurking.

He's a "recreational" hunting dog, so I won't be devastated if he flushes a bird, chases a turkey or even eats one from time to time. I don't want to use the e-collar often because I don't want to burn him out on it, or face a situation like Ayres was talking about. I'd like the e-collar so I know when we go out in the woods, in this land of creepy-crawlies I live in, I know he is going to react to my commands immediately...my only concern is him getting smart and deciding when the collar isn't on he's not gonna listen.

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:34 am

I've heard that if you don't have an e-collar yet, you can duct-tape a D-cell battery to a normal leather collar for the effect of the extra weight. It gets the dog used to it.

Don't know if it works or not though.