Whoa

[Kmahan86]

Looking for some info about whoa training. I have a 1yr old english pointer and I've been working on whoa. Overall we're making good progress. But I'm getting some conflicting info about whether or not he must keep his head still. I've tried to hold his head and some snaps on a choke collar but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm just wondering if it's a wasted effort or if there is a better way to correct this. This is my first dog and I'm new to the training. Any info or advice would be great.

Thanks-Kyle

[birddog1968]

If he's not moving his feet he is whoa'd...its hard to tell what's the problem from your post...

[RoostersMom]

Agree,

feet don't move, he's fine. The feet are where it's at. My newest dog has "happy feet." She likes to move them just a little bit, it's frustrating.

I've followed and been successful with the Perfect Finish DVD on all of mine - not sure what program you're using.

[kcbullets]

I wouldn't worry about the head if the feet was still.

[ibbowhunting]

Adding your location might help, someone close to you may help you out

[Bluesky2012]

Once he's on point on a bird, I'd have a hard time imagining his head will continue moving. Whoa is about stopping him at a place in a standing position, essentially keepin the dog from moving once on point. It isn't a point. If his feet are stopped and he's calm, that's whoa.

[birddog1968]

Just a note....they will do all kinds if things like looking around and dropping down if too much pressure is used. Sounds like time for birds and keep pressure in check.

[RayGubernat]

Looking for some info about whoa training. I have a 1yr old english pointer and I've been working on whoa. Overall we're making good progress. But I'm getting some conflicting info about whether or not he must keep his head still. I've tried to hold his head and some snaps on a choke collar but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm just wondering if it's a wasted effort or if there is a better way to correct this. This is my first dog and I'm new to the training. Any info or advice would be great.

Thanks-Kyle

Hi Kyle -

It does not sound like you have a problem, but it is really hard to tell with the limited info you have provided. If your 1 yr old pup is standing calmly, I'd say that is pretty good actually.

I would love to help you, but I need a little more information. Just how are you doing your whoa work? There are probably a dozen common ways to get a dog to stop and stand and how you proceed kinda depends on exactly what you are doing. Also could you perhaps describe, in more detail, what your dog is doing when you do a training session? It is really hard to see what is going on when all you have is words, so the more descriptive, the better.

If you want to private message me, that would be fine. If you would rather talk on the phone, PM me and I will give you a number to call. I am in central DE. If you are anywhere near, it might be easier to meet and see first hand.

RayG

[birddogger]

It doesn't sound like a problem at all to me. The whoa command is an obedience/safety command. As long as he stops and stands still, there is no problem IMO. As another poster said, I would very highly doubt there will be any head movement when pointing birds.

Charlie

[ezzy333]

Once he's on point on a bird, I'd have a hard time imagining his head will continue moving. Whoa is about stopping him at a place in a standing position, essentially keepin the dog from moving once on point. It isn't a point. If his feet are stopped and he's calm, that's whoa.

I don't agree that whoa has anything to do with a point and many times may actually distract the dog. I have used whoa if the dog is breaking point but the dog should be solid if he is pointing and needs no further incentive. Whoa is a command to stop the dog if he is heading towards trouble such as crossing a road or such.

Ezzy

[Bluesky2012]

Once he's on point on a bird, I'd have a hard time imagining his head will continue moving. Whoa is about stopping him at a place in a standing position, essentially keepin the dog from moving once on point. It isn't a point. If his feet are stopped and he's calm, that's whoa.

I don't agree that whoa has anything to do with a point and many times may actually distract the dog. I have used whoa if the dog is breaking point but the dog should be solid if he is pointing and needs no further incentive. Whoa is a command to stop the dog if he is heading towards trouble such as crossing a road or such.

Ezzy

I don't disagree. Pointing isn't whoa ing, but whoa can be used to stop a dog after the bird flushes to teach the dog to stay on point till fall. I don't even use whoa with my dog.

[Kmahan86]

Looking for some info about whoa training. I have a 1yr old english pointer and I've been working on whoa. Overall we're making good progress. But I'm getting some conflicting info about whether or not he must keep his head still. I've tried to hold his head and some snaps on a choke collar but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm just wondering if it's a wasted effort or if there is a better way to correct this. This is my first dog and I'm new to the training. Any info or advice would be great.

Thanks-Kyle

Hi Kyle -

It does not sound like you have a problem, but it is really hard to tell with the limited info you have provided. If your 1 yr old pup is standing calmly, I'd say that is pretty good actually.

I would love to help you, but I need a little more information. Just how are you doing your whoa work? There are probably a dozen common ways to get a dog to stop and stand and how you proceed kinda depends on exactly what you are doing. Also could you perhaps describe, in more detail, what your dog is doing when you do a training session? It is really hard to see what is going on when all you have is words, so the more descriptive, the better.

If you want to private message me, that would be fine. If you would rather talk on the phone, PM me and I will give you a number to call. I am in central DE. If you are anywhere near, it might be easier to meet and see first hand.

RayG

Ray,

I have a training table that I've built and I use a short leash and a chock collar hooked to both rings so it's not choking him. I basically walk him up on the table and whoa him real quick, I make sure he stays still, and then command "here" and then a slight tug on the leash to release him from whoa. I do this a couple of times back-to-back. I then make a few laps around the front yard having him heel and then walk him back up on the table and whoa him, this time longer and putting some distance between myself and him. I'm finding that he wants to look at me. When I'm standing to his side, he'll whoa, but move his head to look back at me. I am able to walk in front of him and look at him directly and put some pressure on the leash and he'll stayed whoa (most of the time, this requires some corrections, but not too bad) and then I'll walk back to his side that I whoa him on and then pat him and talk softly, but he keeps turning his head to look back at me and I'm not sure if he should keep it straight ahead. I'll release him from whoa and walk him off the table and do it all over again.

As far as his feet go, he's picking up the aspect of not moving them pretty well. I can tell that each time he do the work, he's getting better at it.

I've been reading "The Training and Care of The Versatile Hunting Dog" (the NAVHDA) green book) that I've purchased at a sportsmans show. I've discovered NAVHDA and that book is what I've been using as a training guide. I've looked online at some youtube videos, but I'm not finding any clips of anyone using the same type of technique that are outlined in the NAVHDA book. From everything I've looked at, it seems as though there are about a million different techniques to train a dog on just one command. But I feel that whatever technique is used, it must be stuck with so as not to confuse the dog....I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

If there are any good training DVD's that are out there that come highly recommended, please share them with me.

Thanks for your help!
Kyle

[bonasa]

If the dog thinks there is a possibility for another bird on the find they wont move their head. Don't force the style out of him.

[Tanner01]

I taught whoa to my GSP using a half hitch around her waiste. Used this as a begining http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/in ... -Page1.htm

After that i used a long rope staked out, put half hitch around her and attached to her collar. Used a leash and walked her out to the end. Just before the line goes tight I whoa her. If she keeps going the hitch tightens on her, the first few times she fought it, and with the collar leash I held tension so she couldn't break. Each time I would adjust the length of the line so she couldn't anticipate when it might happen. She had to listen to the command. The benefit is if I whoa her she stops moving forward, by using the leash to hold her still she learned no movement is allowed. I then switched to using the e-collar around her waiste to have an easy way to reenforce it during other training.

Bluesky2012 is right, with a bird in front of of your dog it won't move. Whoa is not pointing but It is very useful in helping to teach steadiness.

My dogs have learned that whoa is usually associated with birds. I teach whoa in the yard, then use it for bird training. Repetition makes it more solid. I use whoa like lab people use sit. She is very solid when I whoa her for her food.

I tolerate head movement, but her feet can not move.

[Neil]

I believe whoa means stop and don't move anything but their eyes (only because I am not sure how to go about training to not roll their eyes). I start when they are wee pups with just my hands, then go to the barrel and on to the Buddy Stick. There are videos for it all. Whoa is followed with a hissssst, which means to stack up, head and tail high.

Hey you asked.

[birddog1968]

If the dog thinks there is a possibility for another bird on the find they wont move their head. Don't force the style out of him.

I agree with this, and sometimes the looking around is a sign of " I'm feeling pressure " precursor to tail letting down and more you don't want to get to. Might be time to shoot a few birds and make life fun again.

[RayGubernat]

Kyle -

I just saw your response. I think the dog is doing just fine. The dog may in fact be looking for you for cues as to what is next. I would not be concerned since this is all happening in the absence of birds.

I would continue the drills as you have been. The dog is obviously progressing with the way you are doing it. As you said there are a multitude of ways to get from here to there.

Do what you can to keep the drills fresh and fun for the dog. try to add some wrinkles to keep the interest up. As an example, I would do some sharp lefst and rights...even back up when I was heeling the dog around. Make it a bit of a game and keep the dog trying to stay with you. Whoa the dog on the ramp, then release and call the dog off the table. stuff like that. Keep the dog just a hair off balance...it really makes them pay attention.

One thing I would do every so often... when the dog is on whoa, on the board or in the yard or wherever...is this. I would walk up to the dog and then place your hand flat on his butt, below the tail, and push forward, gently at first, but as you repeat the exercise you push harder. The dog will resist, since it is on whoa, and stiffen up and dig its toes in... to keep you from pushing it forward. The harder you push forward, the stiffer the dog will get and the more it will resist. You can alternate pushing forward with stroking up, and even verbalize a quiet"goooood dog " to demonstrate to the dog that you are pleased with what it is doing.

I do think, as others have said, that once there is a bird in the equation, a good deal of the head movement will disappear.

RayG